Universal Credit and Supported Housing

AzureBlue

Hello,

I've just migrated over from Employment and Support Allowance (Support Group) and Housing Benefit to Universal Credit. The whole process has been extremely difficult and I could use some advice.

The DWP have finally awarded monthly payments for Disability, but are refusing to cover my Housing costs because my housing association informed them I am living in Supported Housing. In reality, I renegotiated my tenancy agreement in 2020, to remove the requirement for receiving support and paying support charges. So, I believe I have a regular tenancy agreement, which is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy.

Universal Credit have told me to reapply for Housing Benefit, but my local council have refused. My housing association (Places for People) have told Council staff that I am NOT in support housing. 😒 So, they are saying totally opposite things in an attempt to illegally evict me. I am a good tenant and ran my building's resident's group for two years, but cannot pay my rent in the longterm (if I do not receive help through welfare) as I'm unable to work due to illnesses.

I'm planning on submitting a Mandatory Reconsideration to Universal Credit, but wondered if anyone has experience of claiming Universal Credit Housing costs in supported accommodation or similar?

Also, people who have made Mandatory Reconsiderations to Universal Credit or DWP - for any reasons - did they give you a response back in a decent time or were you left hanging for weeks or months? 


Thank you so much 💓 

AzureBlue

RunsFromRobots

Ultimately, whether your accommodation is supported/sheltered is determined by the Local Authority. If they say it isn't then housing costs should be picked up through Universal Credit.

According to the list of registered providers, People for Places are a social landlord. The problem appears to be with the communication between them and DWP.

huckster

Report the Housing again on your UC claim. Under report a change complete the where you live and what it costs section. 

Contact Places for People straightaway after reporting Housing to UC, as it appears to be an error by them that caused the issue. If they add clear notes it is not supported accommodation  then UC when checking with Places for People should be given correct information.

Newcad

This situation happens and often needs an MR or even appeal to sort it out.

Apparently it's begining to happen more frequently now that they have started ramping up Managed Migrations from ESA and HB when claimants are more likely to be in Supported Housing.

According to discussion elsewhere (Rightsnet) it appears to happen because UC tends to treat all 'Supported Housing' as being 'Specified Accommodation' for benefits, however their doing that is not always correct.
Not all Supported Housing is 'Specified Accommodation' for benefits purposes. Some is, some isn't.

The UC form asks if it's Supported Housing and if the answer is Yes it should then go further into just what that means and is it 'Specified Accomodation' - but it doesn't do that and UC just assumes that it's all Specified Accomodation.*

'Specified Accomodation' is paid by the Council as Housing Benefit, and the councils do know the difference, and ask the right questions when needed.
I would go with what the council are saying; but you now have to get UC to accept it too.

It isn't so much that the HA is telling the council and UC different things, rather it's that the HA is saying the same but UC is interpreting what the HA are telling them as meaning something else, something that it doesn't actually mean.

*Apparently the UC form doesn't ask if it's Specified Accomodation simply because that's a legal term (it's accomadation that is "specified" in the legislation) and the tenants/claimants are not expected to know the legal definition of Specified Accomodation.
Another case of UC being "simpler", so simple that it doesn't always ask the right questions.

8dayweek

Ensure you re-report your Housing Costs on your UC account ASAP as Social Housing (“I rent from a Council or Housing Association”) and then your Landlord should be able to verify them via their Portal. 

Places for People have a team who assist with more complex issues (accounts specialists). Have you spoken to them, or are you purely just dealing with your normal housing officer etc? 

tacpot12

If you continue to have trouble, you could ask your MP for help. 

Newcad

Another very similar case has been posted on Rightsnet today.
Which shows that this is a recurring issue where supported accommodation is involved in a Migration to UC.

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/21231/

HB Anorak (a well know advisor) in reply #2 makes broadly the same conclusion as I did above - The council for HB and the DWP for UC are looking at exactly the same evidence and coming to opposite conclusions.
With the council almost certainly being correct.

8dayweek

Newcad said:

Another very similar case has been posted on Rightsnet today.
Which shows that this is a recurring issue where supported accommodation is involved in a Migration to UC.

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/21231/

HB Anorak (a well know advisor) in reply #2 makes broadly the same conclusion as I did above - The council for HB and the DWP for UC are looking at exactly the same evidence and coming to opposite conclusions.
With the council almost certainly being correct.

HB Anorak’s knowledge is unrivalled but I will say…

You can appeal alllllllll the live long day, but if you’ve selected “I live in Supported or Sheltered Accommodation” then NOTHING will have been gathered by UC. You will have just had an automated message telling you this type of Accommodation is covered via Housing Benefit and to apply via your local Council. 

I get it’s a decision of sorts, but it’s not a decision that has been subject to any scrutiny. 

Update the Housing details to “I rent from a Council or Housing Association” from the start of your UC claim. Places for People will be asked to verify the details you’ve provided - if at this stage PfP say “this is supported exempt accommodation” then you’ve got grounds to dispute but I highly suspect it’ll just be verified and then you can request it’s backdated to the start of your UC claim. 

PfP have a team who will help and will contact DWP if something has gone sideways like this due to a simple miscommunication (as you can see in the links above - it’s common due to UC not making a clear distinction about what is specifically “supported exempt” accommodation). 

HillStreetBlues

8dayweek said:

HB Anorak’s knowledge is unrivalled but I will say…

You can appeal alllllllll the live long day, but if you’ve selected “I live in Supported or Sheltered Accommodation” then NOTHING will have been gathered by UC. You will have just had an automated message telling you this type of Accommodation is covered via Housing Benefit and to apply via your local Council. 

I get it’s a decision of sorts, but it’s not a decision that has been subject to any scrutiny. 

Update the Housing details to “I rent from a Council or Housing Association” from the start of your UC claim. Places for People will be asked to verify the details you’ve provided - if at this stage PfP say “this is supported exempt accommodation” then you’ve got grounds to dispute but I highly suspect it’ll just be verified and then you can request it’s backdated to the start of your UC claim. 

PfP have a team who will help and will contact DWP if something has gone sideways like this due to a simple miscommunication (as you can see in the links above - it’s common due to UC not making a clear distinction about what is specifically “supported exempt” accommodation). 

The issue is that the HA informed the DWP accommodation is assisted living with that info it is the "correct" decision. The HA told the LA it isn't assisted living with that info it's also  the "correct" decision. Niether will back down an OP is caught between them.

If OP hasn't done so already is request all info from the council stating it isn't AL and supply that to the DWP.

8dayweek

HillStreetBlues said:

8dayweek said:

HB Anorak’s knowledge is unrivalled but I will say…

You can appeal alllllllll the live long day, but if you’ve selected “I live in Supported or Sheltered Accommodation” then NOTHING will have been gathered by UC. You will have just had an automated message telling you this type of Accommodation is covered via Housing Benefit and to apply via your local Council. 

I get it’s a decision of sorts, but it’s not a decision that has been subject to any scrutiny. 

Update the Housing details to “I rent from a Council or Housing Association” from the start of your UC claim. Places for People will be asked to verify the details you’ve provided - if at this stage PfP say “this is supported exempt accommodation” then you’ve got grounds to dispute but I highly suspect it’ll just be verified and then you can request it’s backdated to the start of your UC claim. 

PfP have a team who will help and will contact DWP if something has gone sideways like this due to a simple miscommunication (as you can see in the links above - it’s common due to UC not making a clear distinction about what is specifically “supported exempt” accommodation). 

The issue is that the HA informed the DWP accommodation is assisted living with that info it is the "correct" decision. The HA told the LA it isn't assisted living with that info it's also  the "correct" decision. Niether will back down an OP is caught between them.

If OP hasn't done so already is request all info from the council stating it isn't AL and supply that to the DWP.

Honestly, I deal with these cases really frequently. 

I would almost guarantee that PfP have told UC no such thing because if “I live in supported or sheltered accommodation” has been selected, then UC don’t even know WHO the Landlord is because this information has not been gathered. 

What will have happened (or at least I highly suspect based on two decades in DWP, years of experience on the front line of UC and daily partnership work with multiple local Councils and national Housing Associations) is that OP will have selected “Supported or Sheltered”. 

This means when they ask about or query getting support with Rent, the Agents look at the claim, click Housing, see “Supported or Sheltered” and signpost OP back to the Council for HB. 

The only way your scenario (and the one alluded to in the Rightsnet link) could have come about is if OP has reported as Social Housing, but PfP have said this is Supported Exempt (if this happened OP will have been asked if they agree with this via a “Confirm your housing details” task and then if OP clicked Yes, the automated “you need to claim Housing Benefit” message would have generated) AND simultaneously PfP have also returned the HB enquiry form from the local Council saying “No” to all the questions about Care / Support (i.e. things that “make” the accommodation supported exempt or specified). 

I’m not saying the second scenario isn’t possible but 99 time out of 100 it’s the first scenario. 

There seems to be a misconception that UC can somehow “stay” decisions on Housing Element until HB is determined, but the system doesn’t really work like that. If it’s Social Housing (and reported as such), the Landlord is asked to supply the details. The Landlord can delay in providing this information but would usually supply a reason for this - as UC chase the outstanding verification requests. If the Landlord verifies as standard, general needs Social Housing then Housing Element will go into payment. 

I get there’s what’s right and what is challengeable and so on, but I’m pretty confident what I’ve described in my first scenario (including how to put it right) will be the issue. 

Newcad

8dayweek said:

What will have happened ............. is that OP will have selected “Supported or Sheltered”. 

This means when they ask about or query getting support with Rent, the Agents look at the claim, click Housing, see “Supported or Sheltered” and signpost OP back to the Council for HB. 

The point is that, as you say there, the UC agent is making their decision whether UC should be responsible for housing costs based on whether the claimant has selected “I live in supported or sheltered accommodation”.

However the actual criteria for whether UC or HB should pay the housing costs is whether it is "Specified Accomodation" (not 'supported or sheltered') - In other words the UC form asks the wrong question and so the correct information is not gathered.

When a claimant selects “I live in supported or sheltered accommodation” then there should be follow up questions on the form  (or to the HA/landlord) to ascertain if it is actually 'Specified Accomodation' or not.