Grievance process

Nothanks

He should ask what the reference will say and ask for a sample reference. 

By resigning he has removed any risk of an unfair dismissal claim but unless HR plan on flat out denying they said that to him they have increased their risk of a constructive dismissal claim. For the record, neither has much chance of success. 

No one comes out of this looking great, hope your friend has learned from the experience and can move on and be successful elsewhere 

Undervalued

Nothanks said:

He should ask what the reference will say and ask for a sample reference. 

By resigning he has removed any risk of an unfair dismissal claim but unless HR plan on flat out denying they said that to him they have increased their risk of a constructive dismissal claim. For the record, neither has much chance of success. 

No one comes out of this looking great, hope your friend has learned from the experience and can move on and be successful elsewhere 

Indeed.

It is widely reported that less than 3% of constructive unfair dismissal claims are won at tribunal. Obviously some others are settled without getting to a hearing but it is a very high bar to get over.

Tabieth

There wasn’t really any “good” options for him. He admitted making inappropriate, sexist, sexualised comments and quite rightly there was a grievance process. His best outcome would have been to wait for the outcome and hope that it was final written warning. Then he could have put his head down, worked hard, behaved and waited for it to time out. Of course he could have been dismissed for gross misconduct so that’s the risk he faced. (It would be pretty unlikely for him to win an appeal given he admits it). By resigning he’s got it permanently on his references that he resigned during a grievance procedure. Future employers will (rightly) assume he jumped before he was pushed. So really just as bad as being dismissed without the remote chance of holding out for a final written warning.

i hope he’s learned a lesson and treats women better in the future. 

a4007035

Thanks all. 

He only verbally gave them his resignation. They've given him 24 hours to reflect on it and I think he has to let them know by tomorrow morning I.e. whether to resign or hear the outcome. 

He's 99% sure the outcome will be dismissal based on he they introduced the meeting. He feels that the outcome of dismissal isn't proportionate to making inappropriate comments. I couldn't advise there as I have no idea what constitutes dismissal. And this could be perceived as gross misconduct. He says he's not sure if the company has previous precedence of dismissing for similar cases. 

a4007035

Monday morning*

Savvy_Sue

a4007035 said:

He feels that the outcome of dismissal isn't proportionate to making inappropriate comments.

So, it's OK to make 

inappropriate, sexist, sexualised comments 

to your work colleagues, presumably about other work colleagues? 

What outcome would be appropriate? 

Because on this occasion, there's been a complaint. On how many occasions has there NOT been a complaint, or the complaint has been brushed away? "Oh, you know what the chaps are like, that's just their way, just ignore it and let them get on with it."

Tabieth said:

i hope he’s learned a lesson and treats women better in the future. 

Hear hear. 

Undervalued

a4007035 said:

Thanks all. 

He only verbally gave them his resignation. They've given him 24 hours to reflect on it and I think he has to let them know by tomorrow morning I.e. whether to resign or hear the outcome. 

He's 99% sure the outcome will be dismissal based on he they introduced the meeting. He feels that the outcome of dismissal isn't proportionate to making inappropriate comments. I couldn't advise there as I have no idea what constitutes dismissal. And this could be perceived as gross misconduct. He says he's not sure if the company has previous precedence of dismissing for similar cases. 

"Inappropriate comments" could be anything from poor wording that could be construed two ways to something outrageous that could even potentially be a criminal offence!

As I explained earlier the legal test is whether dismissal is within the range of sanctions a reasonable employer might choose. Just because "Fred down the road's employer" would let it go with nothing more than a quiet word in his ear doesn't mean another employer has to. Harsh but fair can also be perfectly reasonable in legal terms.

Without knowing exactly what was said, the context in which it was said, where it was said and to what audience nobody can give an opinion. Even then an opinion is all it would be.

a4007035

My understanding is that the comments were made to a male colleague in his team outside of work in a social setting where they were talking about the looks of the people in the team. I don't know exactly what was said. 

prettyandfluffy

a4007035 said:

My understanding is that the comments were made to a male colleague in his team outside of work in a social setting where they were talking about the looks of the people in the team. I don't know exactly what was said. 

It is still inappropriate to discuss work colleagues in this way.  If your friend feels that the (potential) disciplinary action is disproportionate then he should defend himself.  It does depend what exactly was said and only your friend knows the truth of that.

Savvy_Sue

a4007035 said:

My understanding is that the comments were made to a male colleague in his team outside of work in a social setting where they were talking about the looks of the people in the team. I don't know exactly what was said. 

But someone - presumably other than the male colleague who has now left - made a complaint, so I'm guessing it was a bit more than "I like Sue's new haircut". "Yeah, Susie could do with one too, it's quite an old-fashioned style and doesn't suit her."

Honestly, in general we do not rush to HR the moment anyone says anything at all about our appearance, it's got to be pretty bad ...