Dad and his new younger partner - pension, savings and retirement issues

Marcon

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

I don’t disagree with you at all, I don’t think that particular belief has served him especially well over the years. That said, I would like to think he brings a lot to his current relationship in ways that aren’t financial. He’s kind, thoughtful, well-read and well-travelled, a great sounding board, and genuinely funny.

As you’ve probably guessed, I was the one who supported him during his last difficult patch. He was actually quite easy to live with. But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

This isn’t about criticising him or debating whether he is “deserving” or not, I'm tryng to be practical. The whole discussion was sparked by a recent conversation that really drove home just how precarious his current situation is. 

...and that is exactly what I picked up from your post, and why I answered as I did. You don't have much option but to change your own attitude (you can't change his) and stand your ground, otherwise inevitably...and it doesn't seem either kind or sensible to let him continue in blissful ignorance of your revised thinking. He is highly unlikely to believe you, but at least you'll have sounded clear warnings and will need to go on doing so, hopefully with the firm backing of your partner.

You need to have that tough conversation - and more than once.

Thanks, I really appreciate the dose of realism. It’s not easy to hear, but you’re probably right. There’s a part of me that wants to sit down and have a chat with her as well, just to explain where things stand. I know that would probably be massively crossing a line, and I don’t want to meddle or make her feel like I’m judging their relationship.

I do sometimes wonder if she really understands the full picture. I’m not sure she knows how the UK pension system works, or how little security he actually has. And they’ve only been living together just over a year, so she might not have had to think too far ahead yet. From what I’ve gathered, she doesn’t have a lot of past relationship experience either, so it’s possible this is the first time she’s navigating something like this.

And to be fair Dad still comes across as energetic and upbeat, probably more so than most people my own age! Certainly more so than me haha. I can imagine that from her perspective, everything feels pretty stable. But for those of us who’ve known him longer, the signs are there - he’s slowing down, gets tired more easily, sometimes drifts off mid-conversation. The trend is clear, even if he 100% still thinks of himself as young and sprightly.

I don’t think she sees how quickly that could change, or what that might mean for her, especially if she ends up carrying more of the financial load down the line. part of me wants to say something to them both… but I have no idea how to do that without it sounding like I’m interfering.

My post referred to '...the firm backing of your partner', not your dad's. Where does your partner stand in all of this - how much support can you expect from them - not financially, but in terms of tackling the whole issue?

Loldoll

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

I don’t disagree with you at all, I don’t think that particular belief has served him especially well over the years. That said, I would like to think he brings a lot to his current relationship in ways that aren’t financial. He’s kind, thoughtful, well-read and well-travelled, a great sounding board, and genuinely funny.

As you’ve probably guessed, I was the one who supported him during his last difficult patch. He was actually quite easy to live with. But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

This isn’t about criticising him or debating whether he is “deserving” or not, I'm tryng to be practical. The whole discussion was sparked by a recent conversation that really drove home just how precarious his current situation is. 

...and that is exactly what I picked up from your post, and why I answered as I did. You don't have much option but to change your own attitude (you can't change his) and stand your ground, otherwise inevitably...and it doesn't seem either kind or sensible to let him continue in blissful ignorance of your revised thinking. He is highly unlikely to believe you, but at least you'll have sounded clear warnings and will need to go on doing so, hopefully with the firm backing of your partner.

You need to have that tough conversation - and more than once.

Thanks, I really appreciate the dose of realism. It’s not easy to hear, but you’re probably right. There’s a part of me that wants to sit down and have a chat with her as well, just to explain where things stand. I know that would probably be massively crossing a line, and I don’t want to meddle or make her feel like I’m judging their relationship.

I do sometimes wonder if she really understands the full picture. I’m not sure she knows how the UK pension system works, or how little security he actually has. And they’ve only been living together just over a year, so she might not have had to think too far ahead yet. From what I’ve gathered, she doesn’t have a lot of past relationship experience either, so it’s possible this is the first time she’s navigating something like this.

And to be fair Dad still comes across as energetic and upbeat, probably more so than most people my own age! Certainly more so than me haha. I can imagine that from her perspective, everything feels pretty stable. But for those of us who’ve known him longer, the signs are there - he’s slowing down, gets tired more easily, sometimes drifts off mid-conversation. The trend is clear, even if he 100% still thinks of himself as young and sprightly.

I don’t think she sees how quickly that could change, or what that might mean for her, especially if she ends up carrying more of the financial load down the line. part of me wants to say something to them both… but I have no idea how to do that without it sounding like I’m interfering.

My post referred to '...the firm backing of your partner', not your dad's. Where does your partner stand in all of this - how much support can you expect from them - not financially, but in terms of tackling the whole issue?

I haven’t talked to my partner about it in detail, but I know she’s not my dad's biggest fan, so I don’t think she’d be happy about us getting very involved or offering substantial help.Back when my dad was struggling last time, we were only dating, but him staying with me ended up delaying us moving in together... and I think she’s held onto some resentment over that. I can imagine her response being something like, ‘he made his bed,’ which I get to some extent, but at the same time, she’s not particularly close to him, so it’s easier for her to feel that way.

Marcon

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

I don’t disagree with you at all, I don’t think that particular belief has served him especially well over the years. That said, I would like to think he brings a lot to his current relationship in ways that aren’t financial. He’s kind, thoughtful, well-read and well-travelled, a great sounding board, and genuinely funny.

As you’ve probably guessed, I was the one who supported him during his last difficult patch. He was actually quite easy to live with. But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

This isn’t about criticising him or debating whether he is “deserving” or not, I'm tryng to be practical. The whole discussion was sparked by a recent conversation that really drove home just how precarious his current situation is. 

...and that is exactly what I picked up from your post, and why I answered as I did. You don't have much option but to change your own attitude (you can't change his) and stand your ground, otherwise inevitably...and it doesn't seem either kind or sensible to let him continue in blissful ignorance of your revised thinking. He is highly unlikely to believe you, but at least you'll have sounded clear warnings and will need to go on doing so, hopefully with the firm backing of your partner.

You need to have that tough conversation - and more than once.

Thanks, I really appreciate the dose of realism. It’s not easy to hear, but you’re probably right. There’s a part of me that wants to sit down and have a chat with her as well, just to explain where things stand. I know that would probably be massively crossing a line, and I don’t want to meddle or make her feel like I’m judging their relationship.

I do sometimes wonder if she really understands the full picture. I’m not sure she knows how the UK pension system works, or how little security he actually has. And they’ve only been living together just over a year, so she might not have had to think too far ahead yet. From what I’ve gathered, she doesn’t have a lot of past relationship experience either, so it’s possible this is the first time she’s navigating something like this.

And to be fair Dad still comes across as energetic and upbeat, probably more so than most people my own age! Certainly more so than me haha. I can imagine that from her perspective, everything feels pretty stable. But for those of us who’ve known him longer, the signs are there - he’s slowing down, gets tired more easily, sometimes drifts off mid-conversation. The trend is clear, even if he 100% still thinks of himself as young and sprightly.

I don’t think she sees how quickly that could change, or what that might mean for her, especially if she ends up carrying more of the financial load down the line. part of me wants to say something to them both… but I have no idea how to do that without it sounding like I’m interfering.

My post referred to '...the firm backing of your partner', not your dad's. Where does your partner stand in all of this - how much support can you expect from them - not financially, but in terms of tackling the whole issue?

I haven’t talked to my partner about it in detail, but I know she’s not my dad's biggest fan, so I don’t think she’d be happy about us getting very involved or offering substantial help.Back when my dad was struggling last time, we were only dating, but him staying with me ended up delaying us moving in together... and I think she’s held onto some resentment over that. I can imagine her response being something like, ‘he made his bed,’ which I get to some extent, but at the same time, she’s not particularly close to him, so it’s easier for her to feel that way.

You really do need to start facing up to reality (your dad certainly isn't going to if he can avoid it - and he's managed a lifetime of avoidance, so best of luck with that one!) and having some very difficult conversations.  I can't see his girlfriend of today being in it for the long haul any more than any of his previous relationships have survived the test of time, and trying to pin her down/put her in the frame as carer for someone else's aging father might well send her scuttling back to her own country post haste. Your partner has already given you an indication of what she's likely to think if (or more probably when) your father becomes homeless and you are conscience smitten...

You have my sympathy but sadly nothing else I can offer.