Dad and his new younger partner - pension, savings and retirement issues

Cobbler_tone

Loldoll said:

Cobbler_tone said:

Loldoll said:

Hello all! Seeking advice not for me, but for my dad.

he's been married several times. 

- Would marriage to his partner offer him any meaningful financial or legal security now, or would it mean nothing if it doesn't last for a long time (some online advice seems to suggest marriages under 10 years don't count)?

Firstly, all the best to your dad and it is nice that you are trying to look out for him.
It is the first time I have heard someone described as being married "several times" 
I would advise him to try it one more time, although his partner may have other ideas. She must have felt compelled enough to invite him to her house to live together. If I was in his position I would recognise the situation I was in and do everything to be the most supportive partner I could. She could be 'the one!'.
It should be a priority to get some money behind him (i.e. get a job because it definitely makes financial sense!), which will also sort his NI issues out.

There won't be a magic wand to make his alternative options particularly attractive. I'd say the priority is to work.

---

More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

I think if he is in his sixties (with a lot of history) and attracting affluent career women in their early 40's he obviously has some appeal. Sometimes in life people always seem to land on their feet.

Loldoll

Linton said:

He needs 10 yeares NI to get any State Pension.  With just 10 years he will be due about £65/week at current rates. So he has enough time to get there by the time he reaches SP age by using the 6 past years and some in the future.

1 years voluntary NI costs around £900 which may seem a lot.  But given the 3 years he already has it is repaid in SP which he would otherwise not receive in about 2 years.  So certainly worth doing.

Thank you! So he has to find £900 x 7 = £6300 to pay for years he doesn't have - but in two years it will pay back £6760 and will be a net gain after this, even considering inflation and such. Yes, seems worth it!

Linton

Loldoll said:

Linton said:

He needs 10 yeares NI to get any State Pension.  With just 10 years he will be due about £65/week at current rates. So he has enough time to get there by the time he reaches SP age by using the 6 past years and some in the future.

1 years voluntary NI costs around £900 which may seem a lot.  But given the 3 years he already has it is repaid in SP which he would otherwise not receive in about 2 years.  So certainly worth doing.

Thank you! So he has to find £900 x 7 = £6300 to pay for years he doesn't have - but in two years it will pay back £6760 and will be a net gain after this, even considering inflation and such. Yes, seems worth it!

 I dont know.how this would interact with any benefits he is entitled to.

Marcon

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

Spendless

Cant he find some paid work, working for an employer earning enough to pay NI for the few years he has left till he gets to 66/67?  You havent said his health issues mean he cant work at all. That plus paying some backdated missing NI years might get him to the minimum 10 years of contributions. 

Loldoll

NickPoole said:

hmmm it might be his current partner is happy for him to live with her as it saves him money, but that doesn't mean she accepts responsibility for him forever and a day. And even if she does now, as others point out, things change.

let's consider worse case scenario. They split up, he has no job and no income (and no pension coming) - he's in the hands of the welfare state, or seeking hospitality of his family/friends.

If he ends up having to rent and claim housing costs, then having no pension will mean he can claim pension credit and get help with his housing costs - but where he lives will be very much a lottery (unless of course his family take him in) - I think he can claim pension credit if living with family assuming not a "partner".

Unless he has a big chunk of money to pay missing years I think he'll be on the means-tested version, or reliant on his partner.

Yes, that’s exactly the concern, not that we’re expecting anything dramatic or malicious. That’s not his nature, and from everything we’ve seen so far, it’s not hers either. It’s more the possibility of a relationship that simply runs its course, as many do.

So say in five or so years, dad will be approaching 70. His health may well have declined (he has diabetes, which he doesn’t always manage consistently) and it’s likely he won’t be able to work at all, even in a limited way. It’s easy to imagine a situation where she meets someone fresh and new, or her parents, who’ll be approaching 80s by then, need care back in her home country... especially considering she’s from a culture where that kind of family support is often expected.

I am struggling to see what options he’d realistically have in that scenario. It feels like he’s sleepwalking into that future with us just observing and doing nothing. He still sees himself as young and full of energy (and to be fair, he’s still got spirit) but we’re also sadly seeing signs of slowing down. I wanted to discuss this with her, but don't know where to start without sounding as a grabby busybody!

molerat

Linton said:

Loldoll said:

Linton said:

He needs 10 yeares NI to get any State Pension.  With just 10 years he will be due about £65/week at current rates. So he has enough time to get there by the time he reaches SP age by using the 6 past years and some in the future.

1 years voluntary NI costs around £900 which may seem a lot.  But given the 3 years he already has it is repaid in SP which he would otherwise not receive in about 2 years.  So certainly worth doing.

Thank you! So he has to find £900 x 7 = £6300 to pay for years he doesn't have - but in two years it will pay back £6760 and will be a net gain after this, even considering inflation and such. Yes, seems worth it!

 I dont know.how this would interact with any benefits he is entitled to.

^^ This^^

With nothing and living alone he would be entitled to pension credit which would top up his income to just below the new pension amount plus all the add on benefits that come with it - rent, council tax, dental, glasses etc - so topping up could effectively be buying something he would get for free.  It could be worth it though as it would give him some "pocket money" if living as a couple and then get topped up if the relationship fails.

Loldoll

eastcorkram said:

If he has no savings, and no income, how would he fund the purchase of voluntary NI contributions??

If they do see themselves staying together long-term (forever?), this would actually make a lot of sense as an investment of sorts (based on the numbers above). It would more than pay for itself within two years once he hits retirement. And if that kind of future isn’t really on the cards, then it’s still important that both of them are clear about where they stand, so no one ends up blindsided down the line.

NickPoole

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

Without wanting to sidetrack the thread too much (this was a request for how to proceed financially, after all, not a discussion on whether said dad was "deserving" or not) -  the age old argument about "taking responsibility" or "relying on the state" comes up here.

As I mentioned above, OP's father is essentially relying on either state provision, or partner, family or friends. Many folk will have to do the former, and many of them won't have been "feckless", it's just the cards that have been dealt.

I'm not sure that "tough love" would do much more here than make everybody concerned slightly (or very much, even) less happy.

Loldoll

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

I don’t disagree with you at all, I don’t think that particular belief has served him especially well over the years. That said, I would like to think he brings a lot to his current relationship in ways that aren’t financial. He’s kind, thoughtful, well-read and well-travelled, a great sounding board, and genuinely funny.

As you’ve probably guessed, I was the one who supported him during his last difficult patch. He was actually quite easy to live with. But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

This isn’t about criticising him or debating whether he is “deserving” or not, I'm tryng to be practical. The whole discussion was sparked by a recent conversation that really drove home just how precarious his current situation is.