Dad and his new younger partner - pension, savings and retirement issues

Loldoll

LHW99 said:

Thank you, that's something we haven't considered - does the child benefit not go to the mother (resident parent) automatically? Yes his children are young primary age. Can he claim child benefit if his partner earns above the threshold (way above from what I understand, like mid 6 figures).

Child benefit goes to the parent who has claimed it. However, if the children's mother has not claimed (perhaps because doesn't need to / doesn't qualify), he can make a claim, but refuse the payments as his partner is a high earner. That means he still gets the NI credits (but no extra money).

Thank you! Definitely something worth considering.

Loldoll

NickPoole said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

Without wanting to sidetrack the thread too much (this was a request for how to proceed financially, after all, not a discussion on whether said dad was "deserving" or not) -  the age old argument about "taking responsibility" or "relying on the state" comes up here.

As I mentioned above, OP's father is essentially relying on either state provision, or partner, family or friends. Many folk will have to do the former, and many of them won't have been "feckless", it's just the cards that have been dealt.

I'm not sure that "tough love" would do much more here than make everybody concerned slightly (or very much, even) less happy.

Thank you. I wouldn’t describe him as feckless, quite the opposite, actually. He’s always been hardworking. Over the years, he’s started several businesses, and at one point he was employing nearly a hundred people (not an exaggeration). He poured everything into those ventures, but they never produced the kind of personal income or financial security for him personally. Some of that was certainly down to his own choices and attitudes, but a lot came from circumstances well outside his control (like the credit crunch etc).

In between those periods, he’s taken on all sorts of manual jobs just to keep money coming in, he’s never been idle for long, but most of that work was casual or short-term, and didn’t hit the thresholds needed to build up pension contribution. So despite nearly always working in some form or another, he’s reached this point without a financial safety net.

Loldoll

Cobbler_tone said:

Loldoll said:

Cobbler_tone said:

Loldoll said:

Hello all! Seeking advice not for me, but for my dad.

he's been married several times. 

- Would marriage to his partner offer him any meaningful financial or legal security now, or would it mean nothing if it doesn't last for a long time (some online advice seems to suggest marriages under 10 years don't count)?

Firstly, all the best to your dad and it is nice that you are trying to look out for him.
It is the first time I have heard someone described as being married "several times" 
I would advise him to try it one more time, although his partner may have other ideas. She must have felt compelled enough to invite him to her house to live together. If I was in his position I would recognise the situation I was in and do everything to be the most supportive partner I could. She could be 'the one!'.
It should be a priority to get some money behind him (i.e. get a job because it definitely makes financial sense!), which will also sort his NI issues out.

There won't be a magic wand to make his alternative options particularly attractive. I'd say the priority is to work.

---

More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

I think if he is in his sixties (with a lot of history) and attracting affluent career women in their early 40's he obviously has some appeal. Sometimes in life people always seem to land on their feet.

Haha, yes, we’re proud of the old dog. I don’t want to say anything unkind about his partner, because I genuinely like her and honestly think she’s the best match he’s had... even better suited to him than my mum, and that’s not easy for me to admit! Let’s just say I don’t think she’s had a huge amount of romantic attention from men otherwise. I really don’t mean that in a harsh way, it just seems like, for both of them, this relationship has offered something they couldn’t easily find elsewhere, which is a win-win in my book.

Marcon

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

I don’t disagree with you at all, I don’t think that particular belief has served him especially well over the years. That said, I would like to think he brings a lot to his current relationship in ways that aren’t financial. He’s kind, thoughtful, well-read and well-travelled, a great sounding board, and genuinely funny.

As you’ve probably guessed, I was the one who supported him during his last difficult patch. He was actually quite easy to live with. But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

This isn’t about criticising him or debating whether he is “deserving” or not, I'm tryng to be practical. The whole discussion was sparked by a recent conversation that really drove home just how precarious his current situation is. 

...and that is exactly what I picked up from your post, and why I answered as I did. You don't have much option but to change your own attitude (you can't change his) and stand your ground, otherwise inevitably...and it doesn't seem either kind or sensible to let him continue in blissful ignorance of your revised thinking. He is highly unlikely to believe you, but at least you'll have sounded clear warnings and will need to go on doing so, hopefully with the firm backing of your partner.

You need to have that tough conversation - and more than once.

Loldoll

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Marcon said:

Loldoll said:

Thank you! Haha, yes, I see what you mean by “several marriages”. I didn’t want to give the exact number because that might sound worse than it is. He’s not a serial cheater or a womaniser, nothing like that. He’s actually a really kind and sincere person who’s been genuinely in love each time, always wanting it to last. But he’s also very impractical and tends to fall for the same type (strong, capable, industrious women) and I think they just end up exhausted.

I love him deeply, but I can’t ignore that this pattern has repeated a few times now. And yes, we do believe he should be working in some form, even if it’s not strictly for the money. Sadly, he doesn’t see it the same way.

This all came up after a family get-together over the bank holiday, where he was joking about being a trophy husband. We were like, “Sure, Dad… but you’re not a husband, technically! More like a toyboy, and those don’t come with much protection if things fall apart!”. Not that we said it aloud, of course, but we all had the same thought.

Giving the exact number of marriages 'might sound worse than it is'. Really? You think it could sound worse than what you've posted?

He doesn't need to do anything, and won't do anything, while those around continue to indulgent his childish belief that all will be well and someone else will provide - which is the message coming over loud and clear from your posts.

The reality is that the current love object could well return home in a year or two, leaving him homeless and penniless.

Loving someone deeply can, and all too often does, blind you to reality and practicality. Sometimes tough love impacts on those doing the loving more than the loved one - but are you really helping him by letting him continue to live in his parallel universe where he doesn't have to do anything at all but passively accept the largesse from others, while contributing precisely nothing in terms of effort or labour? Maybe time for him to grow up, albeit rather late in the day?

I don’t disagree with you at all, I don’t think that particular belief has served him especially well over the years. That said, I would like to think he brings a lot to his current relationship in ways that aren’t financial. He’s kind, thoughtful, well-read and well-travelled, a great sounding board, and genuinely funny.

As you’ve probably guessed, I was the one who supported him during his last difficult patch. He was actually quite easy to live with. But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

This isn’t about criticising him or debating whether he is “deserving” or not, I'm tryng to be practical. The whole discussion was sparked by a recent conversation that really drove home just how precarious his current situation is. 

...and that is exactly what I picked up from your post, and why I answered as I did. You don't have much option but to change your own attitude (you can't change his) and stand your ground, otherwise inevitably...and it doesn't seem either kind or sensible to let him continue in blissful ignorance of your revised thinking. He is highly unlikely to believe you, but at least you'll have sounded clear warnings and will need to go on doing so, hopefully with the firm backing of your partner.

You need to have that tough conversation - and more than once.

Thanks, I really appreciate the dose of realism. It’s not easy to hear, but you’re probably right. There’s a part of me that wants to sit down and have a chat with her as well, just to explain where things stand. I know that would probably be massively crossing a line, and I don’t want to meddle or make her feel like I’m judging their relationship.

I do sometimes wonder if she really understands the full picture. I’m not sure she knows how the UK pension system works, or how little security he actually has. And they’ve only been living together just over a year, so she might not have had to think too far ahead yet. From what I’ve gathered, she doesn’t have a lot of past relationship experience either, so it’s possible this is the first time she’s navigating something like this.

And to be fair Dad still comes across as energetic and upbeat, probably more so than most people my own age! Certainly more so than me haha. I can imagine that from her perspective, everything feels pretty stable. But for those of us who’ve known him longer, the signs are there - he’s slowing down, gets tired more easily, sometimes drifts off mid-conversation. The trend is clear, even if he 100% still thinks of himself as young and sprightly.

I don’t think she sees how quickly that could change, or what that might mean for her, especially if she ends up carrying more of the financial load down the line. part of me wants to say something to them both… but I have no idea how to do that without it sounding like I’m interfering.

Sarahspangles

Loldoll said:

But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

It’s a conversation to have with your other siblings, or they’ll assume….

Albermarle

I do sometimes wonder if she really understands the full picture. I’m not sure she knows how the UK pension system works, or how little security he actually has

Most likely she probably does not. Most of the British public have a very poor understanding of subjects like pensions and personal finance, so unlikely for a non UK person to be switched on to these things.
Many couples never or rarely discuss money.

Loldoll

Sarahspangles said:

Loldoll said:

But the truth is, I really, really can’t do it again. I have a partner and a baby now, and even if I wanted to help, I simply wouldn’t be able to.

It’s a conversation to have with your other siblings, or they’ll assume….

Yes, definitely, it’s a concern for all of us, but I’ve always been the one best placed to help, so the unspoken assumption has kind of always been that I would step in if needed. That’s probably why I’m the one losing sleep over it now.

My sister is a single mum of three and barely scraping by, and my brother’s living a digital nomad life with no real base in the UK, let alone the stability to take something like this on. As for the rest of our siblings… well, they’re between 19 and 5 years old, so not exactly in a position to help out either!

Cobbler_tone

I think the thread has crossed over to counselling! It is clear it is about you as much as your Dad.
Does he know there is no chance of a roof at yours? That seems to be the biggest worry. 
Would you see him on the streets if no other alternative, i.e. your siblings don't step in either?

I agree, the odds are stacked very much against a long and successful relationship and he at least needs to consider his plan B. 

A good approach (however difficult) would be to put a clear stake in the ground...and I wouldn't include his partner in that conversation. It's not fair to introduce emotional blackmail or add pressure on her. I'm not even sure what you would say to her that could possibly make the situation better. Ask for her 30 year plan and whether it involves being a carer?!

We all love a happy ending though, so fingers crossed.

Loldoll

Cobbler_tone said:

I think the thread has crossed over to counselling! It is clear it is about you as much as your Dad.
Does he know there is no chance of a roof at yours? That seems to be the biggest worry. 
Would you see him on the streets if no other alternative, i.e. your siblings don't step in either?

I agree, the odds are stacked very much against a long and successful relationship and he at least needs to consider his plan B. 

A good approach (however difficult) would be to put a clear stake in the ground...and I wouldn't include his partner in that conversation. It's not fair to introduce emotional blackmail or add pressure on her. I'm not even sure what you would say to her that could possibly make the situation better. Ask for her 30 year plan and whether it involves being a carer?!

We all love a happy ending though, so fingers crossed.

Yes, sorry. It is emotional for me, and I got carried away from practicalities.