Practical advice on checking & refusing furniture delivery?

born_again

Grumpy_chap said:

CupofTea22 said:

The delivery date is already beyond the promised timescale on the website.

When was the original delivery date expected?

This comment seems different from the start of the thread:

Technically Visa set 15 days & Mastercard 30 days from date of debit to be delivered.
So in theory you could do it on day 16 & 31.

Of course this is tempered, when a retailer gives a later date, if you tried the above then they would come back with the date they had advised & you have then lost your one chance of a chargeback & NO a different reason will not work either.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:

Do you have anything confirming that the CC company are obliged to refund within 14 days, or are you simply basing that on the fact that the trader is meant to refund within 14 days so therefore the credit provider under a s75 claim must have the same obligation (ie no more than 14 days)?

That's the one  

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

» show previous quotes

EU guidance stipulates risk has not passed where delivery is refused. 🙂 Of course we aren’t in the EU these days but as our legislation comes from the EU directives it’s a good source to articulate a position...

Out of curiosity do you have a link to that guidance?

As I said in my first comment I think this is an interesting question.  The OP referred to his "rights to refuse delivery" and we often see people on here being advised to refuse delivery, yet I'm not aware of any right to refuse delivery and I'm not sure how it would be executed in practice*.

I'm also surprised that if refusal to accept delivery is "a thing" and is in the EU guidance, that it isn't expressly referenced in the CRA.  It seems an odd omission.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52021XC1229(04)&qid=1640961745514

5.5.5.   Risk when returning the goods to the trader

....... 

Where the consumer has never taken physical possession of the goods, e.g. by refusing to take delivery, either without any explicit statement or with a statement to the trader about withdrawal from the contract, the trader would continue bearing the risk of loss or damage since no transfer of risk to the consumer will have taken place according to Article 20.

This is obviously referring to risk during return combined with the right to cancel resulting in a refund. If the trader has their info correct the consumer bearing any direct costs of return suffered then so be it.

In the case of Royal Mail there isn't a cost as goods go back to sender for free, not sure about other couriers but the costs there will be easy to prove. 

In the case of a company using it's own fleet, costs should (generally) be minimal as they will plan efficient routes so you are looking at the cost of part of the journey rather than a special trip for one delivery, however as above due to "up to 20%" I would argue the second part of paragraph (o) of Schedule 2 of the CCRs (for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods) as not been met.

Delivery of goods from the CRA comes to in play giving the consumer the right to treat the contract at an end if the trader does not deliver, what a court would decide if that was a result of the consumer's obstruction who knows?  

(Again none of this applies to the OP as delivery will take place if they inspect the goods). 

born_again

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

Do you have anything confirming that the CC company are obliged to refund within 14 days, or are you simply basing that on the fact that the trader is meant to refund within 14 days so therefore the credit provider under a s75 claim must have the same obligation (ie no more than 14 days)?

That's the one  

I think you may find that while CC is jointly liable, that the 14 day refund only applies to the company purchased from. 
Or the vast majority of S75 case would fall foul of the regulation.

It is certainly not something FOS have brought up in cases taken to them. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

Do you have anything confirming that the CC company are obliged to refund within 14 days, or are you simply basing that on the fact that the trader is meant to refund within 14 days so therefore the credit provider under a s75 claim must have the same obligation (ie no more than 14 days)?

That's the one  

I think you may find that while CC is jointly liable, that the 14 day refund only applies to the company purchased from. 
Or the vast majority of S75 case would fall foul of the regulation.

It is certainly not something FOS have brought up in cases taken to them. 

If the consumer has the right to reject under Section 20 of the CRA against the cc I can't see why paragraph (15) wouldn't apply to cc either?

Worth noting the 14 days rule includes beginning with the day on which the trader agrees that the consumer is entitled to a refund so when a TV is "faulty" establishing that is such isn't included in the 14 days.

However with something like furniture that is damaged upon delivery/has visible defects it is apparent they do not conform simply by looking at the goods and thus the trader has no option but to agree once they have seen the goods (which can be done via photographs these days).   

sheramber

OP what do you intend to do if you ask the courier to wait while you inspect the furniture and he says no? 

This sounds like buyer’s remorse. 

born_again

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

Do you have anything confirming that the CC company are obliged to refund within 14 days, or are you simply basing that on the fact that the trader is meant to refund within 14 days so therefore the credit provider under a s75 claim must have the same obligation (ie no more than 14 days)?

That's the one  

I think you may find that while CC is jointly liable, that the 14 day refund only applies to the company purchased from. 
Or the vast majority of S75 case would fall foul of the regulation.

It is certainly not something FOS have brought up in cases taken to them. 

If the consumer has the right to reject under Section 20 of the CRA against the cc I can't see why paragraph (15) wouldn't apply to cc either?

Worth noting the 14 days rule includes beginning with the day on which the trader agrees that the consumer is entitled to a refund so when a TV is "faulty" establishing that is such isn't included in the 14 days.

However with something like furniture that is damaged upon delivery/has visible defects it is apparent they do not conform simply by looking at the goods and thus the trader has no option but to agree once they have seen the goods (which can be done via photographs these days).   

So when a company does not agree, then there is no 14 day timescale. 

CC again will be from the date they agree to refund. So is only relevant once a refund is agreed. 🤷‍♀️

S75 take as long as they take, due to the information required from the customer to prove the breech. Once CC has looked at this, then they will make the decision. Usual rule is once decision reached customer will be advised & letter sent to confirm payment is full & final settlement. Once received back payment made. Usually within a day or 2.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

born_again said:

So when a company does not agree, then there is no 14 day timescale. 

CC again will be from the date they agree to refund. So is only relevant once a refund is agreed. 🤷‍♀️

I guess it's a case of not being able to disagree with something that is matter of fact.

I'd imagine most people just go with the flow (with retailer or cc) but if someone sent a LBA with 14 days to resolve and then filed through small claims I can't see they can be penalised for this, obviously the consumer has no obligation to go through the bank's customer service process for a S75 claim. 

(That's not to suggest firing off an LBA in the first instance, just hypothetical).  

Okell

It's a pity the OP hasn't returned to answer the questions asked:

1.  are you still in a position to withdraw your offer to buy (ie goods have not yet been dispatched and you have not yet received an email confirming dispatch)?

2.  when did you order the goods?

3.  what was the indicated timescale for delivery?

4.  if delivery is now outside the indicated timescale, have you given the trader a deadline for delivery under s28(7) Consumer Rights Act 2015?

daveyjp

Choose to buy from a company with their own transport and delivery teams.

M and S, John Lewis, local furniture stores will deliver, unpack, check the items, build if required, install and remove the waste.

Grumpy_chap

daveyjp said:

Choose to buy from a company with their own transport and delivery teams.

M and S, John Lewis, local furniture stores will deliver, unpack, check the items, build if required, install and remove the waste.

Yes, although, FWIW, they may not necessarily instantly take back an item of faulty furniture.  We purchased a new sofa which was delivered with a fault from DFS.  The delivery service unpacked the sofa, assembled feet etc., positioned in the correct place and when we advised the fault in the fabric, they said they could not take it back "because not insured to" but would report to the customer service team within DFS who - I must say - were most efficient at resolving the fault to an excellent standard.  I suspect there is some incompleteness in the truth of the "not insured" statement about taking back the faulty sofa.