Practical advice on checking & refusing furniture delivery?

CupofTea22

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

CupofTea22 said:

I understand the general rights around refusing delivery, and rights on damaged or missing goods - BUT what's the best way to manage it on a practical level?

The situation here is that we are due a furniture delivery in a few weeks. There are extensive reviews on Trustpilot saying furniture is delivered with pieces missing, or some minor damage.  Plus issues on getting a refund (another issue..). As it's furniture trying to return anything will be expensive (and we would have to pay, then get refunded) or waiting for them to organise a pickup would take many weeks probably.

If we presume the worst, I would like to properly inspect all the furniture when it arrives, before 'accepting', and if anything is wrong/missing I want them to take the whole delivery back for an immediate refund.  Is this practical? Ie can I make them wait while I inspect the furniture? What is they just leave it on my driveway, can I contact them to say I am refusing delivery, and it is then their responsibility for it being left?

You ask an interesting question.

We often have posters here talking about "refusing delivery" but I am by no means certain what legal (or practical) right a consumer has to refuse delivery of goods they've already ordered.

EU guidance stipulates risk has not passed where delivery is refused. 🙂 Of course we aren’t in the EU these days but as our legislation comes from the EU directives it’s a good source to articulate a position. 

That said OP wanted to inspect then refuse which is effectively short term right to reject.

Easiest answer is to pay on credit and have S75 cover.

Failing that @born_again if a buyer refuses delivery can they still perform a chargeback for non-receipt? 

In terms of asking them to wait, whilst you shouldn’t have to, if they say no a £20 note is a magical thing.

OP where did you buy from? 

Thanks. We've paid on credit card. It's just not wanting the lengthy process of trying to organise a delivery back, giving them X no. of days to respond or process a refund, etc.  It's Moda Furnishings.  Have seen their furniture and seems good quality. However they've switched off their phone lines, rarely reply to emails it seems, so trying to put myself in the best position in case the worse happens.

CupofTea22

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Failing that @born_again if a buyer refuses delivery can they still perform a chargeback for non-receipt? 

In terms of asking them to wait, whilst you shouldn’t have to, if they say no a £20 note is a magical thing.

OP where did you buy from? 

In a word NO.

Company can reject claim on basis delivery was refused.
Would be same under S75. As it would be consumer breech, not retailer.

Even if items are missing which means they are failing to deliver what was promised ie these items delivered within a certain time period?  The delivery date is already beyond the promised timescale on the website.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

CupofTea22 said:

Thanks. We've paid on credit card. It's just not wanting the lengthy process of trying to organise a delivery back, giving them X no. of days to respond or process a refund, etc.  It's Moda Furnishings.  Have seen their furniture and seems good quality. However they've switched off their phone lines, rarely reply to emails it seems, so trying to put myself in the best position in case the worse happens.

Thanks OP, bear with me, I'll try to make this as straightforward as possible  

When you "refuse delivery" this means you say "I don't want it" and the goods/parcel never come into your possession which is not what you are proposing.

Delivery doesn't mean send by courier, etc, it means voluntary transfer of possession, your proposal to inspect the goods will mean delivery has occurred and instead you are proposing to accept delivery, inspect and then reject (under the short term right). Asking the delivery driver to hang about is just an added bonus of making the return process more simple for both you and the company. 

If the driver is happy to do that and the goods go back the company owe you a refund within 14 days of you rejecting (snap some photos before the goods go back, send an email, await refund). 

If the company doesn't refund you have S75 cover (assuming each item of furniture is over £100 which I'm guessing it is). 

If the driver doesn't hang about and you find issues then you can either reject the goods, let the retailer know and go through their return process.

The other option is to reject the goods, let the credit card company know and go through their process. The card company is also obligated to refund you within 14 days, rather than phone customer services I would just raise an official complaint (details of doing this will be on their website) which should get a better response. 

The credit card company probably don't want the furniture, from posts on here if the card company refund the goods still belong to the retailer but if the bank has refunded from their pot are the company going to know/ever come looking? Really you should let the retailer know twice you have the goods, asking them to collect and if they don't you can then sell for fair market price (probably on the lower end due to your inability to post) and then if the retailer ever came looking you give them the money for the sale (minus any reasonable costs you paid to sell the goods). After 6 years the money is yours. 

If you don't sell you have to take reasonable care of the goods and again after 6 years they become yours.

Neither option is that straightforward so, contradictory to what I said before, getting the driver to wait if you can is best, failing that claim via card company might put you in a better position but dealing with the retailer might result in them simply collecting and refunding (or sending out any missing parts/replacing any damaged parts).

If you try the retailer first and get nowhere you can of course go after the card company second (and vice versa).

Hopefully nothing will be wrong but if it is and you face resistance pop back for more advice  

One thing I will say is OP the retailer's terms on faulty items appear spot on and quoting a company's own T&Cs is usually met with less resistance than quoting rights (which in this instance are one and the same). 

One last note, the alterative to rejecting/returning for a refund is a price reduction after a failed repair/replace, if there was damage in a place you could live with accepting a few quid back from the retailer might be preferable also (and again their terms acknowledge that right). The retailer may also agree to a part refund without attempting repair/replace but that has nothing to do with rights and is simply two people agreeing something. 

born_again said:

Company can reject claim on basis delivery was refused.

Thanks for confirming  

born_again said:

Would be same under S75. As it would be consumer breech, not retailer.

(OP ignore this bit as it doesn't apply to you) I do agree there is a potential to argue the consumer has beached the contract if they actually refuse delivery (not sure if there is an implied obligation to accept delivery unless written in the terms?) but of course it is possible for both parties to breach the contract. 

If the consumer breaches by refusing then the trader must retain costs or loss of profit (both mitigated) and refund the difference.

If purchased online right to cancel applies and failure to refund is a breach. Cost of return depends on terms, in this case they do state buyer to pay, their mention of "up to 20%" for the cost of returning items that can not be returned by normal post is to vague for my liking as it should be the direct costs stated, who knows what a court would decide  

If the trader didn't fulfil their obligations above I don't see why cc company isn't jointly liable for what is due. 

born_again

CupofTea22 said:

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Failing that @born_again if a buyer refuses delivery can they still perform a chargeback for non-receipt? 

In terms of asking them to wait, whilst you shouldn’t have to, if they say no a £20 note is a magical thing.

OP where did you buy from? 

In a word NO.

Company can reject claim on basis delivery was refused.
Would be same under S75. As it would be consumer breech, not retailer.

Even if items are missing which means they are failing to deliver what was promised ie these items delivered within a certain time period?  The delivery date is already beyond the promised timescale on the website.

You can claim for the missing items, so long as you have a breakdown of the parts cost.
As to time frame. Depends on the length of time & if you have cancelled.

They cover refusal of deliver in the T/C.


6.6. If we cannot deliver the goods because you do not allow us to deliver the goods to you then we have the right to charge you for a second delivery as our delivery obligation only stands for the first delivery attempt.
For goods which are garden furniture and/or garden structures, redelivery charges will usually be around £55 per package or pallet. A delivery date will be booked to allow time to accept the delivery.
If you refuse delivery of an order, we will take the goods back to our warehouse and will charge you a return delivery fee deemed reasonable. The return delivery fee will be deducted from the refund amount which shall be issued once we have received the goods back in our warehouse and fully inspected the goods.

Okell

CupofTea22 said:

... The situation here is that we are due a furniture delivery in a few weeks...

So as per my previous comment, are you in a position where you can simply withdraw your offer to buy?

Para 4.2 of their T&Cs says:

" The creation of a contract between you and us. The contract between you and us will only take place once we have accepted your order. Our acceptance and the creation of the contract between you and us will take place when we dispatch the ordered goods to the address you provided during the order process and sent a dispatch confirmation e-mail to you."

That means that until they have (1) dispatched the goods to you and (2) sent you a dispatch confirmation email, you are free to withdraw your offer to buy the goods.  You say you are due a delivery in a few weeks.  Do you know if the goods have been dispatched yet and have you received a dispatch confirmation email?

Unless both have happened you can withdraw your offer by emailing them as per the contact details in para 7.9 of their T&Cs.

Make it clear when doing so that you are not cancelling the contract , rather you are exercising your right to withdraw your offer to buy before they accept it under para 4.2 of their T&Cs.  You can also refer to para 29(3) of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 which says:

"(3) Paragraph (1) does not affect the consumer's right to withdraw an offer made by the consumer to enter into a distance or off-premises contract, at any time before the contract is entered into, without giving any reason and without incurring any liability."

The obvious drawback with the above course of action is that - if successful - you will never receive the goods so you will never know if you were right not to continue to buy them or whether you should have taken the risk and gone ahead with the purchase.

The only realistic alternatives to withdrawing your offer to buy are (1) trying to persuade the deliverer to wait while you inspect the goods for damage etc, or (2) simply to accept delivery and then return to the seller under the short term right to reject if the goods are damaged etc.

Although (1) might be the simplest and most convenient option for you, I'd be very surprised if the deliverer agreed to wait while you unpacked and checked the goods - even if you offer them £20!

Alternative (2) shouldn't pose a particular problem unless the items do actually turn out to be damaged or to have parts missing - in which case you follow the advice in the last comment from @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head and either return to retailer or - if appropriate - negotiate a price refund.   

In fact paras 7.1 and 7.2 of their T&Cs give a good summary of your stautory rights if the goods are faulty/damaged/missing parts.  If the goods are faulty it's also the seller's responsibility to arrange collection of them at their cost.  See paras 20(7) and (8) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

NB - As already pointed out you checking the goods before "accepting" and rejecting them if they are faulty is not the same as you refusing to accept delivery.  It's you exercising the short term right to reject because you first have to accept delivery to inspect the goods

I personally wouldn't recommend that you attempt to refuse to accept delivery of the goods - as opposed to accepting them and checking them - as I suspect that could lead to all manner of complications and confusion - not least because under para 6.6 they will charge you a return delivery fee.  I can see all manner of things going wrong.

captaincynical

I would ask the company their policy if you're worried. Reviews can be skewed as people more likely to take the time to leave a review if they've had a bad experience!

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

» show previous quotes

EU guidance stipulates risk has not passed where delivery is refused. 🙂 Of course we aren’t in the EU these days but as our legislation comes from the EU directives it’s a good source to articulate a position...

Out of curiosity do you have a link to that guidance?

As I said in my first comment I think this is an interesting question.  The OP referred to his "rights to refuse delivery" and we often see people on here being advised to refuse delivery, yet I'm not aware of any right to refuse delivery and I'm not sure how it would be executed in practice*.

I'm also surprised that if refusal to accept delivery is "a thing" and is in the EU guidance, that it isn't expressly referenced in the CRA.  It seems an odd omission.

I also have sympathy for @born_again's view that a refusal to accept delivery would amount to a breach of contract.  The whole idea of refusing to accept delivery of something you've taken the trouble to purchase seems very odd to me and i would have intuitively thought was a breach by the consumer.

Also..

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

CupofTea22 said:

Thanks. We've paid on credit card. It's just not wanting the lengthy process of trying to organise a delivery back, giving them X no. of days to respond or process a refund, etc.  It's Moda Furnishings.  Have seen their furniture and seems good quality. However they've switched off their phone lines, rarely reply to emails it seems, so trying to put myself in the best position in case the worse happens.

... The other option is to reject the goods, let the credit card company know and go through their process. The card company is also obligated to refund you within 14 days, ...

Do you have anything confirming that the CC company are obliged to refund within 14 days, or are you simply basing that on the fact that the trader is meant to refund within 14 days so therefore the credit provider under a s75 claim must have the same obligation (ie no more than 14 days)?


*I'm aware that a person can refuse Royal Mail deliveries but I think that's more a legacy from being able to refuse service of things like summons and other legal documents and not really anything to do with sale contracts between consumers and traders

Okell

CupofTea22 said:

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Failing that @born_again if a buyer refuses delivery can they still perform a chargeback for non-receipt? 

In terms of asking them to wait, whilst you shouldn’t have to, if they say no a £20 note is a magical thing.

OP where did you buy from? 

In a word NO.

Company can reject claim on basis delivery was refused.
Would be same under S75. As it would be consumer breech, not retailer.

Even if items are missing which means they are failing to deliver what was promised...

You are confusing different things.

What @born_again is saying is that if you simply refuse delivery (ie the delivery man turns up and you tell him you don't want the goods and shut the door in his face) then you are potentially in breach of contract and might not have recourse to a s75 claim.

But if you accept delivery and find goods are missing or damaged then you have all your ususal consumer protection - eg short term right to reject

CupofTea22 said:

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Failing that @born_again if a buyer refuses delivery can they still perform a chargeback for non-receipt? 

In terms of asking them to wait, whilst you shouldn’t have to, if they say no a £20 note is a magical thing.

OP where did you buy from? 

In a word NO.

Company can reject claim on basis delivery was refused.
Would be same under S75. As it would be consumer breech, not retailer.

... failing to deliver what was promised ie these items delivered within a certain time period?  The delivery date is already beyond the promised timescale on the website.

Now you are talking about something completely different which you haven't previously mentiond.

What were the original timescales and have you been in touch with them to agree a date

Grumpy_chap

CupofTea22 said:

The delivery date is already beyond the promised timescale on the website.

When was the original delivery date expected?

This comment seems different from the start of the thread:

CupofTea22 said:

we are due a furniture delivery in a few weeks. 

I am also confused by this comment:

CupofTea22 said:

they've switched off their phone lines, rarely reply to emails it seems,

When did you try to phone / e-mail them?
You began your thread yesterday (Sunday) and today is a Bank Holiday Monday.  Many companies will be closed on these dates.  Even if the retail parts of the business are open, the office-functions like aftersales will be closed.

UglyBetty

Some years ago I ordered a  3 piece leather suite for delivery from a very reputable company and my ex told the delivery men that he wanted to look at the goods before they offloaded - he found a massive obvious gash in the leather and refused to accept.  They replaced after several months as it was made to order! We borrowed a suite and the retailer eventually compensated us (me!). However some faults may not be immediately as obvious as this was.  At the end of the day the retailer must supply you goods that are fit for purpose. You have some protection as you paid by credit card.