Arranging Two Separate Funerals Under Contention

Spendless

Thanks for the update re what your Mum wishes, helpful info!

I would say she needs to speak both to a funeral director and a solicitor. The FD will be able to tell her what is possible in terms of making this work. 

The solicitor will be able to tell her about her  wishes being in a will and whether they would be legally binding. (I'm inclined to think they wont be as Im sure thats what our solicitor told us but others can clarify) 

Once she knows what avenues are available to her and whether she can trust anything she wants  has to be adhered to then she can either go ahead or look for an alternative solution.

Gers

Is your mother able to buy a pre-paid funeral plan, for at least you? That way it's all set out.

lincroft1710

Brie said:

The easiest solution to my mind is to let him go ahead and have a funeral and you go ahead and have a memorial service or simply a memorial party aka wake.  

  

Although this may grate, it seems to be the most practical solution.

Your brother is likely to be there at her passing and is also the elder sibling, so despite what any wishes may be in your mother's will, he is likely to get his own way

madbadrob

Ive not read all the replies so apoogies if i repeat anything.

Funerals unlike marriages are considered public events and unless its something like direct funeral care etc who provide a simple cremation and then retrun the ashes are considered public events and anyone can attend.  Even if you stipulate its a private funeral if they can get the date and time they can attend.  

Whilst this is not an ideal situation your mother feels you both are a major part of her life and therefore any differences should really be put to one side for the 45 minutes of the service.

Have you considered trying to build a relationshipo prior to mums death that would allow you both to share the sad event when it should happen.  You dont have to be best buddies etc but maybe agree to be civikl with each other?  

Rob

boingy

At a family funeral last year the deceased had four adult kids, aged between 50 and 65. One organised the funeral, one didn't attend because he hated that his brother had organised the funeral, one sat normally in the second row and one arrived last, sat right at the back and left first without speaking to anyone! There were grandkids but they are young adults so they understood the politics and supported the stance of their respective parents. Happy families.

To the OP, it's likely your brother will organise the "proper" funeral. I suggest you should go to the service, sit wherever feels least uncomfortable and only speak to folks if you feel like it. If you don't go you'll probably regret it in future years. Whether you take your kids depends on their age and maturity. It's not important to go to the wake - the service is the biggie. Once that is done you can hold a private celebration of your mother's life where you invite whoever you like. A knees up in a village hall or a pub would be my choice.

On a related note, does your mother have a will and who are the executors? I'm hoping you and your brother are not joint executors. If you are then your mother should give serious thought to appointing a third party or a solicitor as the executor. The latter will cost more and might be slower but it will be done dispassionately and correctly. 

Marcon

freshfishbuyer said:

Thank you all so much for the responses, I appreciate you taking the time.

I should have mentioned in my original post that I have discussed this with my mother. To cut a long story short, she has said that two separate ceremonies is her preference (given the situation), as she wants the funeral(s) to be about (each of us) remembering her life, not discord. My mother still has contact with us both, but accepts that reconciliation will not occur. I have discussed wishes for the funeral and elements my mother wishes there to be, particularly things around precious memories of her with myself, and with my children. I believe she also has similar elements, relevant to her and my brother/his children, that she also wishes to happen in a proceeding.

The issue is that my brother will not accept this. Our mother's wishes will be of no concern to him. He will see it as a point of pride that there is one ceremony only, under his control, containing only the elements he wants. Our mother's wishes will neither affect nor constrain my brother's actions.

A further concern is that, as I understand it, the cold hard truth is that once passed away, my mother will have no control over what happens. I have wondered if anything could be done in terms of my mother writing her wishes for her funeral(s) in a will, and that being enforceable in some way. However, from what research I've done, it seems that even a will would be considered a "suggestion" and not enforceable in any way.

 

Thank you all for responses covering options, I greatly appreciate it.

Wouldn't the simplest answer to be let your brother arrange the funeral (where the body is present) at a time and place of his choosing, and you have a memorial service at a time and place of your choosing, with each of you paying for your own 'event' (sorry, couldn't think of the right word)? You've summed it up in your post above:

freshfishbuyer said:

Our mother's wishes will be of no concern to him. He will see it as a point of pride that there is one ceremony only, under his control, containing only the elements he wants. Our mother's wishes will neither affect nor constrain my brother's actions.

You don't need someone's mortal remains to be there, so why pick a fight you aren't going to win - and which doesn't even need to develop? Discuss that with your mother and then tell your brother of your decision, which hopefully will give you some sense of control and make this unwelcome approach a little more palatable.

sheramber

Is your mother wanting buried or cremated

how do you propose two funerals would work?


Once cremated there will be no body but you can ask the funeral director to split the ashes.

You can then arrange a memorial service or arrange burial of the ashes. 

If she is buried do you envisage reclaiming the body from the grave and burying it again?

madbadrob

sheramber said:

Is your mother wanting buried or cremated

how do you propose two funerals would work?


Once cremated there will be no body but you can ask the funeral director to split the ashes.

You can then arrange a memorial service or arrange burial of the ashes. 

If she is buried do you envisage reclaiming the body from the grave and burying it again?

I did wonder if someone would bring this up and I had decided it wouldn't be me.  I suspect the OP was not thinking of the deceased body and how that would be dealt with when they made this post.  There is no way technicallyu 2 funerals can take place.  One would be a memorimal service

Rob

MatyMoo

Nothing to do with family arguments, purely logistics for the date chosen which was very close to younger members of the family starting uni.

We did a family & very close friends service at the crematorium followed by a church service open to everyone later the same day. Only one person appeared concerned that there was no coffin at the church. 

Three months later, when the youngsters were home from uni, we interred the ashes in the family plot. 

All this shows that it is possible to split the aspects of a funeral but I would suggest that your mother makes sure her wishes are known to all prior to her death.

Spendless

Of the 3 Grandparents I have lost (all died when I was an adult so I remember the funerals) the following has happened

Grandparent 1 - a burial with a service at Cemetery chapel. About a month later a memorial service at a Church.

Grandparent 2 - Cremation with service. We never knew what had happened to his ashes till my Nan became ill 15 years later and we found the urn in her bedroom.

Grandparent 3 - Cremation with service, but since Grandparent 2s ashes had been discovered, mum paid for a plot to put both their ashes in. This was a few words at the plot by a celebrant and took place a couple of months after the funeral (I think the wording on  the headstone took a bit of time to complete).

Grandparent 4 - Still with us and widow of Grandparent 1 would like the same as him when the time comes however the Church is different now so dont know if this will be possible.

So yes, you can do something additional, but IME the coffin is only present once. 

I got the impression that the OP wishes for the coffin to then be taken to funeral 2 that he wishes to hold. I dont know if thats even a possibility which is why I suggested talking to a FD about it first.

I do feel for the OP's Mum. She clearly wishes to be fair to both her kids even in death.