Octopus Energy Bills - Watch those pennies folks

BigDod12PR

Hi Everyone. Just an observation here and curios to put this out in the public domain for questioning. I was looking at how I am charged by my energy prider Octopus (who by the way I have just left due to ongoing issues with my smart meter). I think it might be the case that customers are being overcharged but only by the odd pence here and there. I have attached a recent bill for my gas for an 11 day period (see below).

There are two issues here that I would like to raise.

1. If my maths are correct 550.5 kWh of gas at 6.59 p/kWh amounts to  £36.27795 (550.5 x 0.0659). It doesn not equal £36.31 which I have been charged. So Octopus have overcharged me by 3.2 pence on gas alone just on this one bill.

2. Another observation made is that Octopus always round up the pence. So if your bill came to £36.255, they would always round up to £36.26 and charge us this extra half penny. In fact I think they round up the penny everytime it seems. They even round up the standing charge fees.

On the face of it this might not seem like much. What's a half pence or an overcharge in pennies going to do? Not much for you and I but if you were to consider the 12.9 million customers Octopus have in the UK (according to Google) all those millions of half pennies and all those small miscalculations where there is only a few pennies out in our bills, they all add up to a consderable amount of money. So who gets this money? Does Octopus bank it? They are in essence taking money that is not theirs

I think there is something more sinister happening here which perhaps has went undetected up until now. I'd love for the moneysavingexpert team or the energy ombusman to take a closer look into this.

If other energy providers are following this billing scheme then it does begs the question, are we being ripped off even more for our energy than we care to realise?

I encourage anyone to check yuor bills and see if teh same is happening to you. If so drop me a comment.

la531983

This has cropped up before on here, the gas and electric rates are actually more than 2 decimal places, they are merely given as 2dp on the bill for ease. No overcharging is occuring. And everything 0.5 or above is rounded up, that is a simple rule of mathematics.

End of thread.

BigDod12PR

la531983 said:

This has cropped up before on here, the gas and electric rates are actually more than 2 decimal places, they are merely given as 2dp on the bill for ease. No overcharging is occuring. And everything 0.5 or above is rounded up, that is a simple rule of mathematics.

End of thread.

hi la531983. Thanks for your comment. According to Octopus, my flexible tariff rate is 6.59p per kwh for gas. There is no mention regarding rounding up to 2dp in their Tariff. That aside, simple maths show they have overcharged me. This can be seen in black and white. 

Mark_d

You have consumed 51.0 cubic metres of gas

Multiply this by volume correction and calorific value (noting that calorific value is not constant over time)

Divide by 3.6 to convert to kWh

The answer will not be exactly 550.5 !

Calculations are performed to a higher accuracy result are only displayed to one or two decimal places for ease of reading.

There will be an element of rounding in your bill total - some month's you might be overcharged by 0.5p and some  months you'll be undercharged. But overall your total energy consumption is correct and the rates you're charged are correct.

la531983

BigDod12PR said:

la531983 said:

This has cropped up before on here, the gas and electric rates are actually more than 2 decimal places, they are merely given as 2dp on the bill for ease. No overcharging is occuring. And everything 0.5 or above is rounded up, that is a simple rule of mathematics.

End of thread.

hi la531983. Thanks for your comment. According to Octopus, my flexible tariff rate is 6.59p per kwh for gas. There is no mention regarding rounding up to 2dp in their Tariff. That aside, simple maths show they have overcharged me. This can be seen in black and white. 

Get energy price cap standing charges and unit rates by region | Ofgem

"Prices include VAT and are rounded to two decimal places."

Even the price caps are rounded. The situation has been explained to you, good luck in your crusade.

BigDod12PR

Mark_d said:

You have consumed 51.0 cubic metres of gas

Multiply this by volume correction and calorific value (noting that calorific value is not constant over time)

Divide by 3.6 to convert to kWh

The answer will not be exactly 550.5 !

Calculations are performed to a higher accuracy result are only displayed to one or two decimal places for ease of reading.

There will be an element of rounding in your bill total - some month's you might be overcharged by 0.5p and some  months you'll be undercharged. But overall your total energy consumption is correct and the rates you're charged are correct.

Hi Mark_d. Thanks for your message. So the sum goes..... kwh = (51.0 (units of consumed in m3) x 1.02264 (Vol Correction) x 38 (calorific Value)) all divided by 3.6 (convert from Joules). This gives me 550.5212 kWh which if we multiply by 6.59 pence per kWh equals a total cost of £36.27935. I was charged £36.31. Can you perhaps explain what I am missing here?

la531983

Its been explained to you by me what you are missing. I even provided you a link and a quote from the OFGEM website.

BigDod12PR

I must be having a very bad day or my maths and engineering degree has completely been a complete waste of time :-) . £36.27935 rounded to 2dp is not £36.31. £36.27935 rounded to 2dp is £36.28. A 3 pence overcharge!

debitcardmayhem

Your tariff is including vat, the figure on the bill 6.59 is rounded up/down from your inclusive rate / 1.05 what was your tariff inc VAT?
EDIT e.g. my rate is 5.74 inc vat on the bill shows 5.46 but the underlying rate is 5.4666667 

Mark_d

BigDod12PR said:

Mark_d said:

You have consumed 51.0 cubic metres of gas

Multiply this by volume correction and calorific value (noting that calorific value is not constant over time)

Divide by 3.6 to convert to kWh

The answer will not be exactly 550.5 !

Calculations are performed to a higher accuracy result are only displayed to one or two decimal places for ease of reading.

There will be an element of rounding in your bill total - some month's you might be overcharged by 0.5p and some  months you'll be undercharged. But overall your total energy consumption is correct and the rates you're charged are correct.

Hi Mark_d. Thanks for your message. So the sum goes..... kwh = (51.0 (units of consumed in m3) x 1.02264 (Vol Correction) x 38 (calorific Value)) all divided by 3.6 (convert from Joules). This gives me 550.5212 kWh which if we multiply by 6.59 pence per kWh equals a total cost of £36.27935. I was charged £36.31. Can you perhaps explain what I am missing here?

What you're missing is that the calorific value is not constant.  The average calorific value over your 11 day period is not 38 exactly. Therefore your figure of 550.5212kWh is not correct.

HillStreetBlues

BigDod12PR said:

I must be having a very bad day or my maths and engineering degree has completely been a complete waste of time :-) . £36.27935 rounded to 2dp is not £36.31. £36.27935 rounded to 2dp is £36.28. A 3 pence overcharge!

Prices are actually X.XXX  rather than X.XX  so for you it will be 6.595 EDIT been corrected.

Personally I don't agree with it, I want to see the full price I pay like the oil I buy.