City Fibre installed fibre in private owned flats building with no permission

Kairi1844

matelodave said:

littleboo said:

noitsnotme said:

It’s fibre optic cable, there is no risk of it starting a fire as it transmits light, not electrical signals.

Perhaps not a risk of starting a fire, but a risk of helping a fire spread if fire stops have been breached etc. There are also risks of cables over doorways blocking exits when the fixings melt.

Oh dear, a doom and gloom merchant. No wonder we are all getting paranoid.

There's being paranoid, and then not having the correct documents SHOULD a fire happen.
I don't think you are understanding how easily insurances void policies over things such as missing documents. Why should us as owners take that risk over fibre installed without our permission? And risk our homes? 
Also they drilled the fibre into our walls and all around our electrics and fire system, we have no idea what they may has disturbed or moved. They faulted our alarm system with their work already so why would we assume nothing else they did UNAUTHORISED could cause us issues? 

noitsnotme

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

iniltous

noitsnotme said:

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

Perhaps you haven’t read the thread , there won’t be any documentation because they didn’t ask permission to install their equipment , if they had followed  the appropriate ‘legal ’ path and hadn’t trespassed into this building , there would  be a wayleave etc showing permission had been granted , ( effectively there would be a contract allowing CF to install ) , and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc, obviously if the building owners collectively didn’t want this , end of story, they can’t be compelled, especially as the person ordering service isn’t even an owner but a renter .

To compare a MDU  to SDU ( a single dwelling unit ) is risible , where ordering a service for yourself in a property you own is self evidently  a tacit agreement that the provider has been granted permission to fit their kit , the installation only affects the fabric of the SDU , it’s ridiculous in the extreme for a SDU owner to ask for connection then complain about the equipment being installed to deliver the service they themselves wanted .

As the OP has explained this ‘illegal’ installation has already caused problems (alarm system and door access system ) 

noitsnotme

iniltous said:

noitsnotme said:

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc

Is this a legal requirement?  As stated I have never received anything like this for a communications install.

Having sold several properties I have always been asked by solicitors to provide FENSA certificates and other similar documentation for eg electrical installs/upgrades, gas safety certs for boilers etc.  But I have never been or heard of anyone being asked to provide documentation for a communications install.

littleboo

noitsnotme said:

iniltous said:

noitsnotme said:

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc

Is this a legal requirement?  As stated I have never received anything like this for a communications install.

Having sold several properties I have always been asked by solicitors to provide FENSA certificates and other similar documentation for eg electrical installs/upgrades, gas safety certs for boilers etc.  But I have never been or heard of anyone being asked to provide documentation for a communications install.

Are you referring to leasehold property with a landlord and a management company?

noitsnotme

littleboo said:

noitsnotme said:

iniltous said:

noitsnotme said:

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc

Is this a legal requirement?  As stated I have never received anything like this for a communications install.

Having sold several properties I have always been asked by solicitors to provide FENSA certificates and other similar documentation for eg electrical installs/upgrades, gas safety certs for boilers etc.  But I have never been or heard of anyone being asked to provide documentation for a communications install.

Are you referring to leasehold property with a landlord and a management company?

Is it a legal requirement for that type of property?  You would think a company the size of City Fibre would know if it was and insist it was done.

And are leasehold properties exempt if there is no landlord and a management company?!

littleboo

So it sounds like your experience, as is most peoples, is limited to acting as the owner of a freehold property. I cant answer the questions about MDU's, landlords etc, but I do know that that the two situations aren't directly comparable so there is no point comparing them The point here is that CF have seemingly just done the work, so there has been no dialogue to seek agreement from the correct people,  about how the work is to be done, what CF would provide on completion of the install etc etc

iniltous

noitsnotme said:

littleboo said:

noitsnotme said:

iniltous said:

noitsnotme said:

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc

Is this a legal requirement?  As stated I have never received anything like this for a communications install.

Having sold several properties I have always been asked by solicitors to provide FENSA certificates and other similar documentation for eg electrical installs/upgrades, gas safety certs for boilers etc.  But I have never been or heard of anyone being asked to provide documentation for a communications install.

Are you referring to leasehold property with a landlord and a management company?

Is it a legal requirement for that type of property?  You would think a company the size of City Fibre would know if it was and insist it was done.

And are leasehold properties exempt if there is no landlord and a management company?!

I can’t follow your reasoning , is it a legal requirement to gain permission on private property to install anything , do you really need to be told that the answer is Yes ,

If you as an owner occupier of a single dwelling ask for service ,  then you obviously have the authority to allow the work  , it’s entirely your property that the work is done within and you as the owner have commission the work , that’s is nothing like a private multiple dwelling building and installing something that single resident ( leaseholder or renter ) wants , they sin)my don’t have the authority to grant permission for work in common areas ( corridors, stairwells, risers )  they are the ‘property’ of the freeholder/managing agent , a single resident cannot grant permission for something they don’t ’own’. 

You are correct in stating City Fibre and their contractors should know the law , they either do know the law and ignored it , or worse , they don’t know the law …..in either case they shouldn’t have done this  work without gaining permission in advance, and if the OP decides they need to remove it and reinstate the fabric of the building , that’s what they will need to do .

noitsnotme

iniltous said:

noitsnotme said:

littleboo said:

noitsnotme said:

iniltous said:

noitsnotme said:

I have had various communications utilities (BT, Cable & Wireless, NTL, Sky, Virgin, City Fibre, etc) fitted to several properties over the years and have never been issued with any documents relating to the fitting.  It’s not like FENSA for windows and doors.

What documents are you after?

and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc

Is this a legal requirement?  As stated I have never received anything like this for a communications install.

Having sold several properties I have always been asked by solicitors to provide FENSA certificates and other similar documentation for eg electrical installs/upgrades, gas safety certs for boilers etc.  But I have never been or heard of anyone being asked to provide documentation for a communications install.

Are you referring to leasehold property with a landlord and a management company?

Is it a legal requirement for that type of property?  You would think a company the size of City Fibre would know if it was and insist it was done.

And are leasehold properties exempt if there is no landlord and a management company?!

I can’t follow your reasoning , is it a legal requirement to gain permission on private property to install anything , do you really need to be told that the answer is Yes ,

If you as an owner occupier of a single dwelling ask for service ,  then you obviously have the authority to allow the work  , it’s entirely your property that the work is done within and you as the owner have commission the work , that’s is nothing like a private multiple dwelling building and installing something that single resident ( leaseholder or renter ) wants , they sin)my don’t have the authority to grant permission for work in common areas ( corridors, stairwells, risers )  they are the ‘property’ of the freeholder/managing agent , a single resident cannot grant permission for something they don’t ’own’. 

You are correct in stating City Fibre and their contractors should know the law , they either do know the law and ignored it , or worse , they don’t know the law …..in either case they shouldn’t have done this  work without gaining permission in advance, and if the OP decides they need to remove it and reinstate the fabric of the building , that’s what they will need to do .

I didn’t ask “is it a legal requirement to gain permission on private property to install anything”.  You appear to have missed the question I actually asked.  It’s directly after your previous post, quoting the relevant part of your post.  Here’s a reminder…

You said “and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc” and I asked if that was a legal requirement.  Is it?

A family member is currently looking at leasehold flats and I would like to know if this is something we need to insist on the vendor providing for whatever communication providers installation is present.  I suspect it’s not, hence why I asked what “correct documentation” the OP was after to placate their insurer.  But I could be wrong!

noitsnotme

littleboo said:

So it sounds like your experience, as is most peoples, is limited to acting as the owner of a freehold property. I cant answer the questions about MDU's, landlords etc, but I do know that that the two situations aren't directly comparable so there is no point comparing them The point here is that CF have seemingly just done the work, so there has been no dialogue to seek agreement from the correct people,  about how the work is to be done, what CF would provide on completion of the install etc etc

My actual question was… is it a legal requirement for what the other poster stated?  Which was “and prior to installation, a method statement provided detailing the installation process and any mitigation as far as fire stopping etc”.

Is it?  Is it only legally required when a management company and landlord are involved?