Neighbour taking down our fence

gerbiljo2

I am really struggling how to reply on this chat room!

Our property is just under 4 acres. We have the title deeds and boundary owner is not mentioned. 

Once upon a time our neighbours plot was part of our garden but gifted to a son or daughter who got married and subsequently divorced resulting in it being sold. The plot our neighbour owns has no title deeds online, but he has spent nothing on it leaving it as a vacant plot until he got plannning permission 3 years ago for which we wrote a letter at his request to support. The boundary fence that was present 3 years ago I presume is accurate as I doubt either party wound of moved it and some of it was old concrete posts etc.

Once he got planning he cleared everything so he literally doesn’t have a leaf in his plot, every tree stump is removed etc. he replaced the neighbours fence on the other side removing all his trees and conifers in the process and aload of ivy off the elevation of the house promising to paint it but never did. 

When he realised he couldn’t land grab he was hoping we would purchase a new few so he didn’t have to spend anything as he is really tight. He’s built a whole bungalow he’s cleared rubbish off his land by burying asbestos and burning a caravan amongst other things. The two lots of fence we put up we not matching which would annoy him and we have planted loads of bushes (we have a very natural plot). 

When he built his bungalow a foot out of the ground and spread all the foundation mud the fence we had put up to stop his ‘view’ was no longer adequate so we made it higher which made him mad.

he has bought fencing which is 6ft but with his elevated land more like 5ft especially if he puts the fence on our now much lower ground. We do not want him looking in so the look of his fence is not relevant to us. Even if he takes it down we would likely put a higher fence up again behind it- which will annoy him. Our whole plot is edged with hedging the last thing we want is a large bare new fence exposing his property. So as far as I’m concerned even if he gets his way with the fence ultimately he will not be taking our garden as a view even if I have to invest in a huge amount of straw bales. The ongoing costs though is something that’s hard for us to sustain.

gerbiljo2

youth leader that sounds awful- what sort of animals? we have a cph so we can have but we have but i suspect he will complain about noise when he moves in

saajan_12 i have been trying to get a boundary surveyor today hopefully someone will take it on!

youth_leader

It was awful for them and they ended up taking just two of their pygmy goats and their two dogs, they sold their geese and ducks.  

Good luck with the boundary, I would go the legal route at all times with this person.  How awful he removed hedges and trees now during the nesting season.  Best of luck.

gerbiljo2

That’s terrible ☹️ty

WIAWSNB

gerbiljo2 said:

youth leader that sounds awful- what sort of animals? we have a cph so we can have but we have but i suspect he will complain about noise when he moves in

saajan_12 i have been trying to get a boundary surveyor today hopefully someone will take it on!

A boundary surveyor might be a good call, but it will obviously cost you. Is it necessary, tho'?

I would urge restraint about going the 'legal route', certainly not until you have undertaken a few steps to try and seriously reduce the possibility of your neighbour taking advantage over the fence, and deffo not until you have concrete evidence to back you up in the event this escalates. Do NOT get caught on the back foot. 

At the moment, you are concerned about what? Is it that the fence line could move a few inches? If so, you can take steps in order to protect you against this.

The existing fence has been there for how long? It has been, and still is, the accepted, unchallenged demarcating line, and your neighbour will have to prove it ain't if he wants to move it towards your side. Don't let him make you jump through hoops. He can hire a boundary surveyor if he wants. He's the one making the claim.

I would add, tho', to choose your battles carefully, and if you have 4 acres, and your neighbour is going to put up a new fence at his cost, then does a few inches matter that much if that is all you are quibbling about? 

So, decide what is acceptable to you, and then be ready to agree with what he wishes to propose if it isn't an unreasonable deviation from this. Get this agreement evidenced, put in place methods of protecting yourself from deviations by him, let him build his fence, let the dust settle, and then plant your trees.

If you don't take basic steps to evidence this, then do not expect the police or the legal system to protect you.

Check these out - they work very well: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/376241459989? Ditto for CCTV - these have an excellent image, and will pick up any tiny sound: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356763116901?

You set the pocket one going, and you talk to the guy, on the ground at the fence, and you ask him what he wishes to achieve. Let him talk. You nod and say, "Ok, that's fine with that" to everything reasonable like him directly replacing the wire with his fence. You say, "Hang on a minute - why do you think you can move the established boundary?!" to any suggestion by him of doing so. Place the responsibility on him to provide justifying explanation and evidence if he wishes to do this - ask the Qs.

And for pityssakes record all this, surreptitiously.

You may also need to discuss what will happen to your animals during this process. He needs to understand - and acknowledge - that they are currently secured by the wire fence, and if he is going to remove that fence in sections, then he has two options; the first is to ensure that no animal escapes during the replacement process, and the other is to build his new fence on his side of the existing one. That's it. These are the only two options. No argument - these two choices only. Nothing else is 'reasonable'. If he allows your animal to escape, then he will be directly liable (and you are recording you telling him this.)

So, you agree the way forward, and you have this evidenced (don't tell him you have this*). "That's all fine - I am happy for you to do what we have just agreed."

Then explain to him that you are going to do two things; the first it to position accurate markers inside your property, located an exact 2m from the existing posts. And you are going to cover the whole area of your side of the fence with CCTV. (You can set this low - below 6' - which should prevent it from overlooking his garden). You will have evidence that you have informed him of the CCTV camera. 

And you do these two things; marker posts, and CCTV. With this, and your evidenced discussion on the wee recorder, you should achieve two things - the first is the now much reduced likelihood that he will actually try and breach the boundary line. And the other is unimpeachable evidence to legally tackle him should he try; he has been informed, and he cannot claim ignorance or error.

Any threat or suggestion by him that he is going to reposition the boundary must be responded to with an unambiguous, "No, you cannot do that, without you providing evidence to support your claim. If you start putting posts on my side of the existing line, that will be trespass with criminal property damage, and I will call the police, and will have them removed." (Caveat as before - if you are 'happy' to allow him to position the new fence posts just on your side of the existing, then fine.)

(*All recordings should be kept secure, and not shared with anybody. They are only for use should legal or civil action be required.)

Do you have Legal Protection included in your home insurance? If so, check to see if they'll cover boundary disputes - many do not.

Section62

gerbiljo2 said:

I am really struggling how to reply on this chat room!

Our property is just under 4 acres. We have the title deeds and boundary owner is not mentioned. 

Once upon a time our neighbours plot was part of our garden but gifted to a son or daughter who got married and subsequently divorced resulting in it being sold. The plot our neighbour owns has no title deeds online, but he has spent nothing on it leaving it as a vacant plot until he got plannning permission 3 years ago for which we wrote a letter at his request to support. The boundary fence that was present 3 years ago I presume is accurate as I doubt either party wound of moved it and some of it was old concrete posts etc.

Once he got planning he cleared everything so he literally doesn’t have a leaf in his plot, every tree stump is removed etc. he replaced the neighbours fence on the other side removing all his trees and conifers in the process and aload of ivy off the elevation of the house promising to paint it but never did. 

When he realised he couldn’t land grab he was hoping we would purchase a new few so he didn’t have to spend anything as he is really tight. He’s built a whole bungalow he’s cleared rubbish off his land by burying asbestos and burning a caravan amongst other things. The two lots of fence we put up we not matching which would annoy him and we have planted loads of bushes (we have a very natural plot). 

When he built his bungalow a foot out of the ground and spread all the foundation mud the fence we had put up to stop his ‘view’ was no longer adequate so we made it higher which made him mad.

he has bought fencing which is 6ft but with his elevated land more like 5ft especially if he puts the fence on our now much lower ground. We do not want him looking in so the look of his fence is not relevant to us. Even if he takes it down we would likely put a higher fence up again behind it- which will annoy him. Our whole plot is edged with hedging the last thing we want is a large bare new fence exposing his property. So as far as I’m concerned even if he gets his way with the fence ultimately he will not be taking our garden as a view even if I have to invest in a huge amount of straw bales. The ongoing costs though is something that’s hard for us to sustain.

TBH some of the above reads as though you are willing to do things just to annoy your neighbour, and the antogonism is two-way.  Yes, there are things they shouldn't have done (like burying asbestos waste), but if you are already thinking of spending money on "a huge amount" of straw bales for no purpose other than to achieve a 'win' then you might want to think about a reset.

If the situation is two-way then it might explain the response you've had from the police this time.

The key thing though, and my reason for posting the above, is if you decide to go 'legal' in this then you need to be able to demonstrate that you are being completely reasonable.  Courts, generally, are unhappy spending their precious time dealing with tit-for-tat disputes between neighbours.  They can show this by giving one party a win on paper only, which can turn out to be an expensive way of proving a point.

I would echo WIAWSNB's point that if you have 4 acres of land, entering into a boundary dispute with the neighbour over a couple of inches isn't something to do lightly.  You might find it quite difficult to persuade a court that it matters.  And bear in mind the equipment a boundary surveyor will use to measure a plot of land of that size has a margin of error which could make it quite difficult to say for sure that an inch or two either way is where the boundary ought to be.

Most importantly, don't get yourself on the wrong side of the planners.  If you are putting up tall fences and/or a wall of bales with the sole purpose of blocking your neighbour's view, then you might give the neighbour the opportunity to report you for a planning breach.  That could put you at a disadvantage if the whole situation does end up going legal and you find yourself face to face with an irritable judge.

gerbiljo2

No you guys are right he has cost us a lot of money and we are annoyed when we tried to help him initially that he has continued to provoke us. He said he gets joy from stressing out his neighbours when they have to work. He isnt nice and we have risen to the bait in certain ways.
we have had it reconfirmed today that he cant touch the fence having been in contact with our house insurance legal team again. They advised us write a letter to the neighbour which we did and get title deeds and employ the surveyor so I have done that today.
Our neighbour doesn’t have his land registered.
the surveyor is now writing to the neighbour and going to do a survey and try and negotiate a solution. Expensive but our aim is to get clarity, if we are over the boundary we will amend the fence obviously. If it’s on our land and he has some of ours we don’t care about that he can then put his fence inside it and not touch our plants and leave us alone but he will have to accept that our fence extends in height above his.
gonna look a some cctv but might have to be next month now!!! Was working all weekend for a birthday part for my daughter but I guess now I’ll need to work a few more ☹️

SootySweep1

To be honest he sounds like a bully who wants his own way & so you need to decide whether you want to argue with him over the fence or let him put up a fence of his choice & as long as he isn't moving the boundary to suit him & putting your live stock at risk and live with it. That will probably be the cheaper option.
I'm no expert but if you do want to argue over this then I'd suggest that you need legal support from a solicitor with experience in this type of disagreement. I'd start with a strongly worded letter from the solicitor telling him to put it back or you'll see him in court.
I'm not sure how you can have responsibility for a boundary in that it's the dividing line between two properties & nothing physical. If your fence is on your side of the boundary line then there's nothing to stop him building his fence alongside your fence but surely removing your fence is trespass, criminal damage & theft if he removed it.

Slinky

If installing his fence requires taking yours down, surely reinstating yours will require taking his down........ If your existing fence is on your land then if any extra space is needed to erect another fence it should be taken from his own land leaving your fence where it is?