Got a PCN for overstaying by 37 seconds

FairPark

Hi, Hoping to receive some advice. I dropped my son off at a university Campus where they offer a 30 minute grace period for drop offs. 

I arrived at 15:41:45 and left at 16:12:22, which means I stayed for 40 minutes and 37 seconds. I kept to time quite well, but there was a build up of traffic at the exit, which is where those last 50 seconds were spent.

The PCN is for £50, £25 is paid within 14 days. Is it worthwhile for me to appeal this? I always thought there was a grace period of some minutes when it came to parking. If so, any templates that I could use? 

Coupon-mad

Show us the PCN both sides please. You can use the image icon. Add some words to your reply not just the two photos.

h2g2

There is an appeal template in post 1 of the Newbies thread.

The appeal is fairly simple: their terms & conditions allowed for 40 minutes of parking, and the times are entry and exit times. Unless they can demonstrate that it took the driver 37 seconds or less to find a space, park in it, and get from the space to the exit again, no terms were breached. (Note: do refer to "the driver" in 3rd person, and do not admit to driving if it was indeed you.)

Parking companies often turn down the appeals (because it's free money money for them if you get disheartened and decide to just pay up), but POPLA would likely allow the appeal and even the IAS might allow this one, though I wouldn't be surprised if they don't.

If the appeals don't work, sit tight and prepare for a court claim, where they would have to convince a human, impartial judge that you found a space, parked, then got to the exit afterwards in under 37 seconds.

Car1980

"De minimis" is a legal term meaning "too small to be meaningful" or "immaterial". It's used to exempt minor matters or technical breaches from legal requirements or penalties. The phrase, often translated as "the law does not concern itself with trifles," suggests that the law won't enforce rules for insignificant violations. 

Presumably you mean 30 mins and 37 secs, not 40 mins.

Whether to "appeal" / challenge or ignore depends on the parking company.

"37 seconds over? Are you having a laugh? I'm obviously not paying you." via email is also one option.

Coupon-mad

Clearly the PCN wasn't issued for 37 seconds over which is partly why I want to see both sides of the NTK.

The OP seems to have wrongly assumed a ten minute grace period can be added to a drop off bay limit. But let's see both sides of this NTK.

FairPark

Coupon-mad said:

Show us the PCN both sides please. You can use the image icon. Add some words to your reply not just the two photos.

Please see the photos attached

FairPark

Car1980 said:

"De minimis" is a legal term meaning "too small to be meaningful" or "immaterial". It's used to exempt minor matters or technical breaches from legal requirements or penalties. The phrase, often translated as "the law does not concern itself with trifles," suggests that the law won't enforce rules for insignificant violations. 

Presumably you mean 30 mins and 37 secs, not 40 mins.

Whether to "appeal" / challenge or ignore depends on the parking company.

"37 seconds over? Are you having a laugh? I'm obviously not paying you." via email is also one option.

Apologies, I meant 30 minutes and 37 seconds and the last minute or so was spent queuing up to exit. 

FairPark

Coupon-mad said:

Clearly the PCN wasn't issued for 37 seconds over which is partly why I want to see both sides of the NTK.

The OP seems to have wrongly assumed a ten minute grace period can be added to a drop off bay limit. But let's see both sides of this NTK.

I made an error in the original post, I was in and out of the university in 30 minutes and 37 seconds. I meant that I assumed companies operate a grace period for parking, so being a couple of minutes over the time wouldn’t be penalised 

Nasqueron

Just FYI if you are going to the uni, the pre-pay is £1 if done the day before. They often do free parking on certain days like drop offs and open days 

Depending how he is with walking and how much stuff, there are plenty of side roads you could use as well.

Exodi

h2g2 said:

If the appeals don't work, sit tight and prepare for a court claim, where they would have to convince a human, impartial judge that you found a space, parked, then got to the exit afterwards in under 37 seconds.

Their website suggests that the 30 minute grace period factors in time to park, register, etc. As the intention for the grace period is for drop off and collections or to register (which realistically should take no more than 5-10 minutes), they have extended it to 30 minutes presumably to counter arguments like yours/the OP about how long it takes to find a space, traffic, etc. I guess my point is that I don't think the intention is for visitors to sit in a parking space for 30 minutes for a drop off off/collection.

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/services/fm/services/traffic-parking/visitors/

Appreciate their website means nothing, as the OP would have relied on local signage (and no idea what that would say). Nonetheless it's probably irrelevant as I suspect this would be countered on technical grounds.

FairPark

Nasqueron said:

Just FYI if you are going to the uni, the pre-pay is £1 if done the day before. They often do free parking on certain days like drop offs and open days 

Depending how he is with walking and how much stuff, there are plenty of side roads you could use as well.

I’ve definitely learned my lesson here - I’ll just prepay in the future. The university recently brought in the system, so this was my first time dropping him off with only the 30 minutes.