PCN Not Wholly Within Designated Bay - Teesside Park, Stockton

BusterWolf

Hi all,

I received a PCN from Minster Baywatch for 'not parking wholly within the designated bay.' I'm currently in the process of putting together my POPLA appeal using the incredible advice and templates on the Newbies thread re: signage, landowner authority etc. However I wonder if the learned pros on this sub could advise on if there's something I could add specifically to my case, as a search of the board couldn't find me something quite like it.



The bay in question is a parent and child space, but as you can see this bay only provides the additional pink area on one side (and the grey car on my left is parked close to the line too). I want to argue that this space is not fit for purpose as it doesn't allow a child extra space to get out of each side (as well as my being pregnant. Not sure if that's relevant.) Further, while I am clearly parked over the white line and slightly into the pink area, their terms and conditions and signage don't state what constitutes a clearly marked bay when regarding a parent and child space.

A photo of their signage attached below. Please let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree here and if this is all pointless, and I'll just proceed with just the usual points in the Newbies thread. My mind is telling me there must be something here too add though, right?

Many thanks for anyone who takes the time to read all this.

Johnersh

I'd argue that the pink space is there to facilitate you getting in and out of your vehicle with a child. Nothing within the manner of your parking caused any obstruction to other drivers or any other bay being occupied.

Arguably you may have been personally disadvantaged in terms of your exit from the car, but that is not the concern of the PPC.

Whilst you could have parked closer to the fiat, it is close to the edge of the bay and as a 2 door car, the doors are long. The driver maintained appropriate space around all sides of the vehicle.

Coupon-mad

Johnersh said:

I'd argue that the pink space is there to facilitate you getting in and out of your vehicle with a child. Nothing within the manner of your parking caused any obstruction to other drivers or any other bay being occupied.

Arguably you may have been personally disadvantaged in terms of your exit from the car, but that is not the concern of the PPC.

Whilst you could have parked closer to the fiat, it is close to the edge of the bay and as a 2 door car, the doors are long. The driver maintained appropriate space around all sides of the vehicle.

Yep and looking at the drafting of the term on the sign they haven't actually said that a car must be parked within 'a bay', only within 'areas' - plural - which is an ambiguous term which MUST be interpreted in the way that best favours the consumer, by law (Consumer Rights Act 2015).

BusterWolf

Thanks a lot guys. I intend to write up my POPLA appeal tomorrow and will share the section containing the arguments above if I may, in order to get your feedback. Hopefully I can win this one at POPLA!

BusterWolf

Well well. I went back to the retail park to take some extra photos of the signage from the same parking spot, and it turns out they have some signs that are specific to parent and child spaces.

To my eyes this one is even worse than the one they sent me in the post above, as it doesn't mention anything at all about parking within designated bays, in the way the normal ones around the site do. Thought you guys might be interested to see this.

Coupon-mad

BusterWolf said:

Well well. I went back to the retail park to take some extra photos of the signage from the same parking spot, and it turns out they have some signs that are specific to parent and child spaces.

To my eyes this one is even worse than the one they sent me in the post above, as it doesn't mention anything at all about parking within designated bays, in the way the normal ones around the site do. Thought you guys might be interested to see this.

Wow. That is perfect!

Make sure you add the date/time to that photo (can be done just by taking a screenshot of the photo).  Use the photo with metadata in your POPLA Appeal and say that the sign relating to the parent & child bays does not have a term (at all) about parking within a bay and the other sign - further away - merely says you must parking within the 'areas' (plural).

BusterWolf

Right, I have completed my first draft of this thing and wondered if I'm able to post it here for someone to briefly review. I've gone for the 'kitchen sink' approach I've seen a few people have success with and have ended with a monstrous 30 pages and 6000 words with tonnes of photos etc, so I'm not expecting anyone to spend hours of their life fully reading it (as I hope the PPC don't either!) but if someone could look over it and make sure I've not shot myself in the foot anywhere, said too much, made mistakes or been irrelevant I would be endlessly grateful.

What's the best way to share it here? Am I allowed to post links to the online word document?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

We don't like clicking on links unless it's just a shared Dropbox link.

BusterWolf

I've uploaded the doc to dropbox but the forum won't let me post the dropbox link unfortunately as I haven't been around long enough.

Coupon-mad

Post it with breaks.

BusterWolf

As of 10pm tonight I have become a Forumite, apparently, meaning I can post links! Hopefully this works.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j2zf42bp6vqio3cydam7v/My-POPLA-Appeal-5.pdf?rlkey=02fghnr283p810afsu42suo8j&st=ihf6b0yq&dl=0

Massive thanks to anyone who has the strength to read this