Edf say cant get e7 as not already on e7

Scot_39

Yes with both variants modern e7 meters charge purely by time, but some old multirate only charged off peak on restricted circuits - switched and seperately metered.

And sounds like you dont have a restricted feed / circuit currently, so any smart meter would do.

If you are going ashp wouldn't something like Cosy or one of the new challanger TOU be better for you.  As gives cheaper rates not only at night but afternoon and evening - a day rate less than e7s - apart from a short peak period - so as long as avoid heavy use at their peak time (3 hrs 4-7pm  for Cosy irc)  - could be a better bet.

barker77

powerful_Rogue said:

barker77 said:

Scot_39 said:

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

Im looking at it for when I get a heat pump. Not quite sure I understand. Surely I just get charged at different prices depending on when use for whole house ? 

Better tariffs out there for a heat pump.

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

Thats only for certain storage heaters 

NorthEastLight

As noted above there are time of use tariffs designed for heat pumps. 

Have you asked edf about their heat pump tariff?

https://www.edfenergy.com/heating/electric/air-source-heat-pump-tariff/trial

powerful_Rogue

barker77 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

barker77 said:

Scot_39 said:

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

Im looking at it for when I get a heat pump. Not quite sure I understand. Surely I just get charged at different prices depending on when use for whole house ? 

Better tariffs out there for a heat pump.

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

Thats only for certain storage heaters 

My bad. @mattmattmattuk posted the correct link afterwards - https://octopus.energy/smart/cosy-octopus/

barker77

E7 rates seem cheaper than the heat pump tariffs although they don’t have the afternoon period so im struggling to work out which is better 

QrizB

barker77 said:

E7 rates seem cheaper than the heat pump tariffs although they don’t have the afternoon period so im struggling to work out which is better 

With E7 you only get cheaper electricity for 7 hours overnight; the rest of the time, you're paying quite a lot more than the standard rate.

I don't know your house or your heating pump but I suspect that you'll want to run the heat pump during the daytime and evening, not just during the seven cheap nighttime hours.

Heat pump tariffs generally give you cheap electricity at intervals throughout the day, which is intended to more closely match the times when you're going to want to run your heating pump.

barker77

Well e7 rates approx 24/24 day and 17 night. So cheaper than the red heat pump tariffs although that has an afternoon cheaper rate so it’s how much difference that makes which I don’t know as I don’t have the heat pump yet 

QrizB

barker77 said:

Well e7 rates approx 24/24 day and 17 night.

Sorry, I don't understand this bit.

barker77

Oops that should say night rate 17p kWh and 24p kWh in day 

masonic

barker77 said:

Oops that should say night rate 17p kWh and 24p kWh in day 

17p is quite high for a night rate. If you think you can benefit from E7 (>40% of usage during the night), then there better options out there. With the specialist heat pump tariffs you get some day usage at the off-peak rate too, so have the potential to get the vast majority of usage off-peak, generally at a rate sub-14p, though EDF's own tariff is a bit more expensive because they don't charge a higher peak rate.