Edf say cant get e7 as not already on e7

barker77

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

masonic

Octopus is willing to switch customers between single rate and E7. So use them to make the change and you'll be currently on E7 for a subsequent switch to EDF.

barker77

Ah thanks. So they can choose not to allow it ? 

MattMattMattUK

barker77 said:

Ah thanks. So they can choose not to allow it ? 

It is not a regulatory requirement for energy suppliers offer E7 tariffs. Most will for customers who are already on E7, but as Masonic said few will do new installs, I think only Ocopus and British Gas at the moment, though EDF did until recently and it may vary regionally. 

NorthEastLight

Is it specifically e7 you want,, or will an alternative time of use tariiff with another supplier work?

Fuse energy quote e7 type time of use tariffs, assume they will let you switch from single rate if they show the option.

Others are available.

Scot_39

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

dunstonh

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

They do.  They offered those fantastic Eastern 7 hours that many of us was very pleased to get for a while.

barker77

Scot_39 said:

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

Im looking at it for when I get a heat pump. Not quite sure I understand. Surely I just get charged at different prices depending on when use for whole house ? 

MattMattMattUK

barker77 said:

Scot_39 said:

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

Im looking at it for when I get a heat pump. Not quite sure I understand. Surely I just get charged at different prices depending on when use for whole house ? 

Om that basis it would make far more sense to go on a heat pump tariff than E7. If you tied it with a battery and solar then an EV tariff would be even cheaper.

powerful_Rogue

barker77 said:

Scot_39 said:

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

Im looking at it for when I get a heat pump. Not quite sure I understand. Surely I just get charged at different prices depending on when use for whole house ? 

Better tariffs out there for a heat pump.

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

MattMattMattUK

powerful_Rogue said:

barker77 said:

Scot_39 said:

barker77 said:

Do providers have to legally offer e7 tariffs? I ask as looking to go on e7. I have a smart meter but not currently on e7.EDF say they will only do if im on economy 7 which seems unfair 

Pretty sure any company with more than 50,000 clients has to support certain classes of RMI (restricted meter infrastructure - i.e. dual / multirate metering) - and the the section on billing RMI on single rate - specifically excludes E7 from that requirement - implying that E7 does count as RMI if not Relevant RMI (for single rate billing - ps to self I really must read the real basis for todays COMP back payments on standing charges - to see if changes the interpretations of that rule).

As far as I know EDF do support E7 tariff.  They offered it to me in distant past - when wouldn't offer E10 to non legacy customers.

But be careful what you mean by E7 - its a tariff that sits on two distinct sorts of home wiring split. And in the modern sense - two potentially physically different types of smart meter functionality - in hardware.

Older economy 7 installs used two separate outputs - one 24/7 live - one restricted (typically live only for 1 single 7 hour time block overnight) (Using things like RTS / mechanical timers or built in to modern digital meter to switch).  Typically a 5 port smart meter - or a 4 port meter with an auxiliary contactor driven by the meter - with so called auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) is needed to replicate and drive homes with that system.   And the restricted used to feed things like NSH for winter heating and HW tank immersion heaters.

More modern installs only have a 24/7 live output - a so called 4 port meter with no ALCS - or a five port meter with but not using the ALCS output facility is sometimes fitted.  Devices then needed own or external timers - to avoid peak rate use.

You cannot simply switch to the traditional form of e7 with ALCS - if your single rate meter and wiring doesn't support it.

However with a modern smart meter you should be able to switch single rate to e7 dual rate tariff (but not necessarily meter based device timing control) or any other time of use tariffs to suit your needs (EV, Cosy / TE lifestyle / FUSE TOU etc etc). On either type of meter.

But I'd be wary of any change to ALCS configuration if have and use a restricted feed - I have seen posts from Octopus customers who had the settings remain unchanged - when switched to their dynamic TOU billed on 1/2 hourly - but not sure how common.

Im looking at it for when I get a heat pump. Not quite sure I understand. Surely I just get charged at different prices depending on when use for whole house ? 

Better tariffs out there for a heat pump.

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

https://octopus.energy/smart/cosy-octopus/