RTS SHUTDOWN AND THTC

NorScot571

I have two meters each with their own consumer unit. The THTC meter incorporates RTS All the power from this meter, 24/7and RTS is charged at the heating tariff.  This meter is recording use 24/7 The RTS element does not switch the tariff it merely switches the storage heaters on and off.  

DE_612183

NorScot571 said:

I have two meters each with their own consumer unit. The THTC meter incorporates RTS All the power from this meter, 24/7and RTS is charged at the heating tariff.  This meter is recording use 24/7 The RTS element does not switch the tariff it merely switches the storage heaters on and off.  

Ah, ok that's different to what I understood.

So the meters are fine and what is connected to them - this issue is the switching on/off of the storage heaters - without the RTS they are either fully on or off forever.

Based on the initial response from your supplier, I'd raise a complaint and if you get nowhere then it goes to ombudsman.

As an aside although the date for RTS switch off is 30th June, I've read they will carry on using the service to ensure everyone is changed over -s o you may get a few more months anyway.

I presume with the tariff you are on you pay a bit more on the standard meter - have you looked at the potential costs if you did got to E7 or E10?

NorScot571

Thats exactly right.
I pay 24.079p per KWh and 57.972p per day standing charge on the domestic meter and 14.785p per KWh (no additional standing charge) on the THTC meter (thats both without VAT).  Complaint raised and already with the  Ombudsman where it has been for some considerable time. (I think it is in the tray marked "Too Difficult!").
I am convinced a lot of people (OFGEM included) do not understand a THTC setup.  My ancient meter is dated 2014.  I have seen a suggestion that the meter my continue switching using the last known cycle but I dont know if thats right.  
The storage heaters are off at the moment but I thnk a lot of peple who have followed OFGEMs advice re a smart meter are going to get a nasty shock in the autumn when they switch their heating back on and see their bills.

QrizB

THTC is an obsolete tariff. It's being discontinued, and if that means you need to pay to have changed made to your wiring that's your responsibility as householder.

NorScot571

I disagree .  My tariff is Standard Variable Heating. In any case OFGEM have said - the licensee must take all reasonable steps to provide a tariff that leaves the consumer  ‘no worse off’ than their existing arrangement as a result of an RTS meter upgrade'.

QrizB

"All reasonable steps" is a fairly weak obligation.

Scot_39

No worse off - not sure if that was Ofgems wording in place at the time - but when I lost RTS in past - it certainly didn't imply exactly as current plan  / system operation, cost or possibly even timings of off peak.

To replace my RTS we were offered two options

E10

or 

Single Rate

And that came with internal wiring warnings.

I lost HW only peak time boost with E10 - I didn't bother doing the wiring mods / fitting a boost switch to get it back. Or remove the now defunct boost switch in the kitchen - that fed into the old RTS meter.

A neighbor with 2 young kids did (or rather landlord did) fit a new boost timer - as literally didnt have enough hot water many days by early evening for kids bath(s).

 

E10 rates were also far more expensive than the RTS that it replaced.

At least in my case the off peak hours were the same - I am not sure if any supplier plans to match THTC's old dynamic timing - iirc upto 12 hours for NSH in winter.  

But arguably if the 12 was a solid overnight block and E10 split in 3 as some Ovo THTC replacement posts suggest - it might actually be better for old lossy NSH for their users.  

Not sure E7 as OP states really is a fair replacement - the problem is it could be a rule compliant one.

NorScot571

I raised this issue to highlight the potential serious issues facing electricity consumers with a RTC setup for their heating particularly those with a THTC or similar arrangement.

There have been several interesting replies, and I would like to add my conclusions.

Most people do not understand the implications of the shutdown.  I presume most contributors have an interest in the RTC shutdown.  However, it was disappointing to note that no one appeared to fully understand exactly how a THTC system operates.

I disagree that “all reasonable steps” is a weak obligation.  The preamble says must, in legal terms a much stronger obligation than should or may., There have been unrelated cases in the High Court where “all reasonable steps” has been explored in detail.

There is currently a consultation dated, 11 February, by OFGEM inviting responses from interested parties on the RTS shutdown. Some of the comments would appear to mirror those put forward by Energy UK (the energy companies trade association). We await OFGEM conclusions.

I accept that internal wiring in premises is the responsibility of the householder.  Equally the meter is the responsibility of the Energy Supplier.  The failure of the supplier to provide a suitable meter should not, in my opinion, make the consumer liable for that failure. I will not accept that it is not technically possible. (My £7.99 clock from a well-known discount supermarket provides accurate radio-controlled time, it ever dealt with the change to Daylight Saving remotely).  There appears to be an unwillingness to even explore the issue.

Many Members of Parliament are now waking up to the issue that thousands of their constituents are at risk of serious financial hardship because of the approach being taken.by the Suppliers overseen by OFGEM (See Hansard Vol 765 8 April 2025. And Hansard Vol 758 4 December 2024).

To make a final point this is not a simple case of taking out an old meter and replacing it with a Smart Meter It is far more complicated than that and the Energy Companies are not addressing the issue in a meaningful way.  I have been raising this issue for years with my Energy Supplier and I am no further ahead today than I was years ago.

Scot_39

Sorry about that lapse on thtc - There are so many rts variants.

Some meters, some just switches.

I doubt many would know details of my old EMEB heatwise - 2 EOn meter fitters didn't either - despite being sent to upgrade it.

Ildhund

I appreciate that you may be faced with having to pay an electrician to carry out some rewiring work. If it's just a question of reconnecting meter tails to the consumer unit, it's possible that the meter engineer could do this at no cost to you. At any rate, the cost is hardly in the realm of 'serious financial hardship'.

There are hundreds of thousands of customers all over Scotland who don't benefit from a 24-hour heating supply at a reduced rate like yours. Are you suggesting that they are all experiencing 'serious financial hardship' because of this? Anyone who is in this situation has access to all manner of support from electricity suppliers, from local and national government and from charities.

A decade or two ago, we all went through a major upheaval as television broadcasting moved from analogue to digital delivery. Everyone had to fork out either for a new TV set or for a set-top box. Those who wished to continue watching some programmes previously available for free now had to pay a subscription. I shouldn't be surprised if there were questions in the house about the serious financial hardship that this would entail for some constituents.