Biomass vs Electricity

IanfromHants

Morning all,

We are in the process of looking at a new home, our last home, to retire to as we probably have 3-4 years left to work.

One house we've just viewed, has a Biomass tank, fed by wood pellets.

I have to say that I had no idea what this was, living in my gas & electricity bubble for so long.

Can anyone advise on costs for these please (general running costs, do they need servicing, cost of pellets?  Does this fluctuate seasonally) and also, through forum users experience, is this an efficient and cost effective way to heat your house?

Do they heat everything, radiators and hot water etc?

The house also has electricity, but I assume that the Biomass Tank literally does your water heating and then electric is for everything else in the house?

Any info would be much appreciated as I have no clues on this one

Thanks all

QrizB

Biomass boilers a relatively uncommon heat option for those without mains gas. They get discussed alongside oil and LPG on the "other fuels" part of this forum:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/lpg-heating-oil-solid-other-fuels

If you look in that part, you'll find a few threads.

Basically they're just another source of heat for DHW and CH, filling the same role as a conventional gas boiler.

Reed_Richards

My impression, which might be false, is that biomass boilers are more temperamental than other forms of heating.  

lohr500

As @QrizB suggests, I would post your questions on the forum page he has linked.

I think you are wise to investigate the pros and cons of Biomass carefully.

Aside from the cost per tonne for the pellets and how that compares to other heating sources, I would be worried about the practicalities, given your retirement plans.

Apparently from Google, 1Kg of pellets yields 4.5kWh of energy at 100% boiler efficiency. The actual boiler efficiency will be less, but should be published if you know the boiler make/model. So if you can get a price per tonne of pellets, you can work out approximately how it compares to mains gas, lpg, oil, direct electrical heating, or heating using a heat pump. Hopefully those with actual biomass experience can help more with real life running cost experience.

I would be concerned over the system itself and the storage for the pellets.

For example, is the pellet hopper blow filled directly from a delivery truck or do you have to manually tip bags of pellets into it?
As you get older, the practicalities of shifting a one tonne pallet load of 15 or 20Kg pellet bags from a roadside delivery and manually emptying them into wherever the pellet hopper is located could become a physical challenge. And you may need undercover storage for the bags if the hopper storage is not big enough.
If the hopper is fed by a blown delivery, what is the availability like in your area and how reliable are the suppliers?

How often does the system need servicing and the ash removing?  I presume ash removal will be a DIY process, but again hopefully someone with real life experience can comment. What disposal options are ther efor the ash?

How much manual intervention does the boiler need on a daily/weekly basis? 

How volatile are biomass prices compared to mainstream energy sources? 

Is there a reliable biomass boiler specialist who can service the unit?

Probably lots of other questions I haven't thought of either.

My gut feel based on no actual experience of Biomass whatsoever, is that I probably wouldn't want to go down that route as I planned for my retirement home. I think I would want to stick with a mainstream solution.

IanfromHants

lohr500 said:

As @QrizB suggests, I would post your questions on the forum page he has linked.

I think you are wise to investigate the pros and cons of Biomass carefully.

Aside from the cost per tonne for the pellets and how that compares to other heating sources, I would be worried about the practicalities, given your retirement plans.

Apparently from Google, 1Kg of pellets yields 4.5kWh of energy at 100% boiler efficiency. The actual boiler efficiency will be less, but should be published if you know the boiler make/model. So if you can get a price per tonne of pellets, you can work out approximately how it compares to mains gas, lpg, oil, direct electrical heating, or heating using a heat pump. Hopefully those with actual biomass experience can help more with real life running cost experience.

I would be concerned over the system itself and the storage for the pellets.

For example, is the pellet hopper blow filled directly from a delivery truck or do you have to manually tip bags of pellets into it?
As you get older, the practicalities of shifting a one tonne pallet load of 15 or 20Kg pellet bags from a roadside delivery and manually emptying them into wherever the pellet hopper is located could become a physical challenge. And you may need undercover storage for the bags if the hopper storage is not big enough.
If the hopper is fed by a blown delivery, what is the availability like in your area and how reliable are the suppliers?

How often does the system need servicing and the ash removing?  I presume ash removal will be a DIY process, but again hopefully someone with real life experience can comment. What disposal options are ther efor the ash?

How much manual intervention does the boiler need on a daily/weekly basis? 

How volatile are biomass prices compared to mainstream energy sources? 

Is there a reliable biomass boiler specialist who can service the unit?

Probably lots of other questions I haven't thought of either.

My gut feel based on no actual experience of Biomass whatsoever, is that I probably wouldn't want to go down that route as I planned for my retirement home. I think I would want to stick with a mainstream solution.

Thanks so much for the in-depth reply an it's one that gives my head a bit of a wobble.

You're totally right that we'd not want to be lugging bags of pellets to store them or also to fill the hopper.

10 years down the line, we may not be anywhere near as fit as we are.

The other source of energy that the house has, is electricity so maybe we can get some solar panels fitted now, whilst we can afford them, to future proof the place a little.

I guess if that were the case, then we'd have to convert the indoor storage tank back and have a new boiler installed too

I wonder if there is any resale value to a Biomass Tank 

tetrarch

lohr500 said:

As @QrizB suggests, I would post your questions on the forum page he has linked.

I think you are wise to investigate the pros and cons of Biomass carefully.

Aside from the cost per tonne for the pellets and how that compares to other heating sources, I would be worried about the practicalities, given your retirement plans.

Apparently from Google, 1Kg of pellets yields 4.5kWh of energy at 100% boiler efficiency. The actual boiler efficiency will be less, but should be published if you know the boiler make/model. So if you can get a price per tonne of pellets, you can work out approximately how it compares to mains gas, lpg, oil, direct electrical heating, or heating using a heat pump. Hopefully those with actual biomass experience can help more with real life running cost experience.

I would be concerned over the system itself and the storage for the pellets.

For example, is the pellet hopper blow filled directly from a delivery truck or do you have to manually tip bags of pellets into it?
As you get older, the practicalities of shifting a one tonne pallet load of 15 or 20Kg pellet bags from a roadside delivery and manually emptying them into wherever the pellet hopper is located could become a physical challenge. And you may need undercover storage for the bags if the hopper storage is not big enough.
If the hopper is fed by a blown delivery, what is the availability like in your area and how reliable are the suppliers?

How often does the system need servicing and the ash removing?  I presume ash removal will be a DIY process, but again hopefully someone with real life experience can comment. What disposal options are ther efor the ash?

How much manual intervention does the boiler need on a daily/weekly basis? 

How volatile are biomass prices compared to mainstream energy sources? 

Is there a reliable biomass boiler specialist who can service the unit?

Probably lots of other questions I haven't thought of either.

My gut feel based on no actual experience of Biomass whatsoever, is that I probably wouldn't want to go down that route as I planned for my retirement home. I think I would want to stick with a mainstream solution.

I own a Windhager Pellet Boiler through choice rather than inheritance. Installed in 2021. We're not connected to mains gas so it was realistically either Oil, Pellets or LNG 

I got in just under the wire of the last Renewable Heat Initiative. I am curently receiving in excess of £500 a quarter - looking ~£12K for the sevcen years for which I receive it. The boiler and install did cost 17K, but this covered huuking up to new UFH and hot water tank

We had an extremely old oil boiler and an oil tank that we wanted replacing. We saw Windhager at an home reno exhibition and decided to go for it. Lohr500 raises an excellent series of questions - I will answer what I can from my own experience

I would be concerned over the system itself and the storage for the pellets.

For example, is the pellet hopper blow filled directly from a delivery truck or do you have to manually tip bags of pellets into it?

Absolutely fair point - blown deliveries are not that mich cheaper than bags in my experience


As you get older, the practicalities of shifting a one tonne pallet load of 15 or 20Kg pellet bags from a roadside delivery and manually emptying them into wherever the pellet hopper is located could become a physical challenge. And you may need undercover storage for the bags if the hopper storage is not big enough.

15kg bags are not particularly heavy but I am 60 - what I will be able to manage at 70 - let alone Mrs Tet is a good question. I am looking at a hopper and some kind of transfer system in the medium term


If the hopper is fed by a blown delivery, what is the availability like in your area and how reliable are the suppliers?

Most of the suppliers are national - I've used three and they've all been good. Delivery of a ton at a time (65 bags) normally is within a week

How often does the system need servicing and the ash removing?  I presume ash removal will be a DIY process, but again hopefully someone with real life experience can comment. What disposal options are ther efor the ash?

Annual service ~£350. User cleaning only once a year and the amount of ash is staggeringly small - easy to put in regular rubbish

How much manual intervention does the boiler need on a daily/weekly basis? 

Next to nothing. It does just seem to work. The only problem we had was as a consequence of some poor quality pellets. The supplier 'fessed up and gave us a huge discount on replacing them. I took their offer and also jerry-rigged a pellet cleaner that fixed the dusty pellets so I was able to use them as well. 

How volatile are biomass prices compared to mainstream energy sources? 

This IS a biggie. Many pellets are sourced from Ukraine and the price shot up when Vladimir decided to push Westwards. My first tonne cost me £323, my most expensive tonne was £545, my last tonne (Dec-24) £378

Now - extremely stable it seems. Much, much more stable than electriclty or gas 

Is there a reliable biomass boiler specialist who can service the unit?

I took Windhager's service plan. They have been great and I would recommend a manufacturer-based offering if available

In summary, it was a bit of a niche decision. Ukraine did give me pause but generally it has worked OK. The 25-minute lead-time for the boiler to fire up (and cool down) is something that you manage with scheduling and finessing your thermostats but it has worked great this winter.

I have just had solar panels fitted so am going to turn off the boiler in a weeks's time for the whole of the summer and rely on the panels to heat my water via an Eddi. I have moved my annual service to the summer as well rather than mid-winter when turning it off for a day was a real PITA

lohr500

Is the indoor storage tank a hot water thermal store, or are you describing the tank that holds the pellets?

If you decide Biomass isn't for you (and please don't base your decision solely on my input as I have no direct experience) and if the indoor tank is a hot water thermal store, then you may be able to replace the biomass boiler with an electric heat pump and utilise the existing water storage tank.

Whatever you decide, don't replace the biomass heating system with flat panel electric heaters using standard rate electricity as they are the most expensive form of heating.

We have a modern oil boiler and it is very reliable, needing only an annual service. Oil could be another option if you determine that the biomass boiler requires lots of manual intervention. 

If a heat pump could be fitted to replace the biomass with minimal plumbing changes, then the same would be true for an oil boiler.   

tetrarch

Good point Lohr500

I do not know what a Biomass Tank is

I assumed that it was a biomass boiler and a regular HW tank (I have a Megaflo) and my advice is based on that assumption

Regards

Tet

IanfromHants

tetrarch said:

Good point Lohr500

I do not know what a Biomass Tank is

I assumed that it was a biomass boiler and a regular HW tank (I have a Megaflo) and my advice is based on that assumption

Regards

Tet

I am not entirely sure myself folks.  It was all a bit of a blur when we saw this house in particular.

There were two units in their shed, close to the house, so possibly one was the pellet machine to be fed, and the one next to it was the water storage

Scot_39

As well as the specific concerns over the suitability for you above.

The simple fact you are having to ask the question - I suspect many others simply wont bother - fear of the unknown can be a powerful motivator - especially as we grow older.

Unless you find answers here or elsewhere that you are comfortable with - as a minimum I'd plan to build in the cost of replacing it into offered price - or negotiate the price down due to I suspect the llikely lack of demand from others - if it isn't already obviously reflected in the price.  

(Its maybe not a choice an informed green would make these days I suspect - given years of fuss over Drax and it's subsisidies - it's greenwashed sheen has definitely been eroded)

And if you don't - so perhaps do plan to replace - remember new electric only tech like ASHP will often need insulation and radiator changes - so make allowances for days / weeks / months of disruption.  Potentially especially if property solid wall and internal insulation the desired / preferred supplier option - when you might even need to or want to consider delaying moving in whilst work completed then the cost of redocarating etc - running 2 houses at once - which will again add to costs.

But ultimately - if everything else is right about the property - than the changes or lvign with the exsiting may well be worthwhile.

Heating in the grand scheme of things - is not always that major a factor for some buyers - even after a couple of years of crisis pricing.

Not aware of issues for domestic - but I know my sisters former LHA were beginning to regret going biomass for tower boilers - as have others - in art based on running costs - swayed by large green £££s grant incentives that reduced capital costs - scrapped since. 

And also having made the step - driven by concern they now face costs of an earlier capital right off by chosen subcontractor for boilers as these too they were being told will need replacing ahead of likely lifespan - under published heating decarbonisation plans - certainly the early draft proposals whilst Bute House power sharing still intact.

IanfromHants

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply.

Very much appreciated and also gives me a lot to consider