Rightmove wrong number of bedrooms and bathrooms

KittenChops

michael1234 said:

KittenChops said:

michael1234 said:

LoopyLoops said:

When we were viewing I have looked at these out of curiosity and to see what changes the current owners have made if the old pictures are there.  I have enough sense to work out if any details aren’t right though.  It’s fairly obvious if an owner has made big changes to the layout or it’s just an error.  I put no store in the prices it gives.  Same for zoopla. 

That may be your case and lost of other people's too but its not everyone's by a long way. Not only do many house hunters look at these numbers as part of an overall picture, "professionals" do too. They often provide a good starting point.

Also the algorimths can easily make sense of "number of bedrooms" but would find it much harder without AI to do anything more complex although I'm sure they do a bit of that too. In other words if you up the number of bedrooms and bathrooms into Zooplas/Rightmove's algorthim they would likely increase the price.

I've done some research about ther meaning of "personal data" and I think full address comes under that because it is identifying information. Whether a photo of your loo or not does I'm not sure. I'm about to find out....

re the bit on bold - no it doesn't
see here: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/personal-information-what-is-it/what-is-personal-data/what-is-personal-data/
quoted from there:
“‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person”.
An address on its own doesn't identify anyone

You might be right but your link doesn't really prove it either way.

I think this link (if you search for "house") is more to-the-point. Again its not 100% clear.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/personal-information-what-is-it/what-is-personal-data/what-is-the-meaning-of-relates-to/

This one whilst not the bible on the subject is likely to be correct. Which?'s take:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-counts-as-personal-data-a4T2s2Y2ffXd
"for example your home address "
is listed as personal data.

Its definitely not crystal clear. I think folk should be more circumspect before jumping in.

I am right.
The ICO is right.

Perhaps read the comment directly under the one of mine you've quoted


In fact - you could read the ICO link you posted - where it says "However, data about a house is not, by itself, personal data."

Tabieth

It is crystal clear. The number of rooms in a property is not personal data. It obviously matters to you for some reason but the advice you’ve had on here (and the reply you received from RM) is clear. You’re really not going to get anywhere with this. 

MysteryMe

Person means an actual human being. A property is not a person, an address is not a person so it is not personal data.  It becomes personal data when there is a human shown alongside or linked to a property or address. That does not happen on RM or Zoopla etc,

michael1234

MysteryMe said:

Person means an actual human being. A property is not a person, an address is not a person so it is not personal data.  It becomes personal data when there is a human shown alongside or linked to a property or address. That does not happen on RM or Zoopla etc,

I don't think that's right - the Which? link above and others say that a home address is personal information because it can be used to identify someone.

Whether or not something is considered personal information seems to be quite complex and depends also whether it is linked to information that clearly is.

Great that you're such a friendly bunch on here. I'm sure we'll tease out the truth shortly. 

artyboy

I'm beginning to think there is only one tease on here 

BlueVeranda

michael1234 said:

MysteryMe said:

Person means an actual human being. A property is not a person, an address is not a person so it is not personal data.  It becomes personal data when there is a human shown alongside or linked to a property or address. That does not happen on RM or Zoopla etc,

I don't think that's right - the Which? link above and others say that a home address is personal information because it can be used to identify someone.

Whether or not something is considered personal information seems to be quite complex and depends also whether it is linked to information that clearly is.

Great that you're such a friendly bunch on here. I'm sure we'll tease out the truth shortly. 

I don't think either of you are entirely wrong on this. We do have a pinned reminder at the top of every page not to share personal RM links as they can reveal your home address to others, after all. A RM listing, scrubbed and blurred by the EA to obscure the owners identity, in itself might not be PII but linked to a username or IP address or email, or posted across multiple forums, could certainly become PII.

Data about your house, such as number of bedrooms, on the face of it wouldn't look specific enough to be PII, but if you happen to own the only 30-bed mansion in your town, that's identifying alright.

saajan_12

michael1234 said:

MysteryMe said:

Person means an actual human being. A property is not a person, an address is not a person so it is not personal data.  It becomes personal data when there is a human shown alongside or linked to a property or address. That does not happen on RM or Zoopla etc,

I don't think that's right - the Which? link above and others say that a home address is personal information because it can be used to identify someone.

Whether or not something is considered personal information seems to be quite complex and depends also whether it is linked to information that clearly is.

Great that you're such a friendly bunch on here. I'm sure we'll tease out the truth shortly. 

What does that have to do with an anonymous listing on Rightmove? 
"1 High Road exists" contains an address but is not personal info 
"1 High Road has 2 bathrooms" contains an address and info about the address but is not personal info. 
"Bob the Builder lives at 1 High Road" is personal info. 

Exodi

Whenever I've purchased a house in the past, I've filtered my search to the price I'm able to pay and then compared the results to see which offers the best bang for my buck, alongside other personal preferences which steer my decision.

I can't say I have found a house that fits my criteria and represents good value when compared to comparable properties of similar pricing, to then visit Zoopla or RM's guess-o-meters to see they reckon it's worth significantly less, and thus concluded the house must be worth less because of it.

The current listing would contain the correct details (otherwise you could insist the EA changes it), your issue seem to be with the details of historic listings (which may not have even been incorrect, the house may have just been upgraded in the interim) and algorithmic pricing based on historic details.

Your suggestion that professional buyers pay any attention to these prices is ludicrous - it's widely known that these auto-valuations are inaccurate. If you used these as the basis to the VoA for example, they'd laugh down the phone at you.

michael1234

Exodi said:

Your suggestion that professional buyers pay any attention to these prices is ludicrous - it's widely known that these auto-valuations are inaccurate. If you used these as the basis to the VoA for example, they'd laugh down the phone at you.

HI. Thanks for your contribution !

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "professional buyer" ? In my experience, I see a lot of valuations that use the likes of Zoopla as a starting point. They typically look at the sale history and apply recent house price inflation to come up with a figure. I've dealt with more than one EA who has admitted to me it is faster to do it that way.

Also bare in mind, that valuations produced by professionals such as rics etc also have a rich history of inaccuracy.

Sapindus

The point about not posting personal Rightmove links as they could reveal your home address is maybe that someone could then find out the name of the owner of the house and link that with the anonymous profile of the MSE forum member.