Obtaining garden slabs that are owed to us.

The_Unready

Section62 said:

The_Unready said:

Who'd be a builder? Countless numbers of them have potential life-limiting conditions and close family members with serious illnesses. It sounds like a very traumatic profession!

It is.

Working outdoors in all weathers, exposed to noise, chemicals and dusts.  At risk of trips, slips and falls, as well as joint and muscle damage from lifting and carrying.

Then if you work for yourself or run a business there's the stress of where the next job is coming from, juggling many tasks and projects, keeping records of what you are doing and what you are buying, dealing with the VATman, and if you want to avoid the risks above (and keep HSE off your back) then all the H&S training and paperwork.

All the time dealing with some clients who want quotes, but have no real intention of giving you the job (there's the 'cash' builder they've got lined up).  Or clients who want to leave everything to the last minute and then expect miracles to be performed, those who can't understand why their job isn't your number 1 priority today, and others who are convinced they could do the job so much better than you can and don't mind telling you at every opportunity (though usually only when it comes to paying your final invoice).

And then very often working on your own with nobody (except the family) to talk about your problems with.  No HR department, no workplace counsellor.

There are undoubtably some builders who take the proverbial, but there are also a great many who have ended up bankrupt, or with serious health issues from their work, and some driven mental health breakdowns and sadly to suicide. If it were so easy then there would be no great need for builders, as everyone would be doing it all themselves.

I wouldn't be a builder myself, but from personal experience I have huge respect for those who try to do the best job they can, even when everything is stacked against them.

(none of the above is a comment on the OP's case, I don't know enough about that to comment)

Crikey  - with all that to put up with, as well as a multitude of seriously ill relatives, I'm amazed anybody bothers to join the trade!

Section62

The_Unready said:

Section62 said:

Crikey  - with all that to put up with, as well as a multitude of seriously ill relatives, I'm amazed anybody bothers to join the trade!

Yes, that's partly why there is a serious shortage of skilled construction workers, and why we get so many threads on this forum about people having trouble finding a builder who is willing to quote.  Why bother indeed.

On the subject of seriously ill relatives, the OP said the landscaper's wife was having cancer treatment. Maybe it wasn't your intention, but your posts imply you don't believe this and "multitude of seriously ill relatives" has a hint of sarcasm which suggests you think it is a bit of a joke.  Obviously none of us know the truth about the landscaper's wife, but cancer is never a joke.  If the landscaper is resorting to telling people his wife has cancer as a way of extricating himself from jobs and that isn't true, then it may be an indication of how unwell he is.  Either way the situation is serious.  I've heard a lot of excuses from builders over the years, but not once have I heard one lie about their wife/husband having cancer.

CTM80

Thank you for all the replies on this.

Section62 said:

TheSpectator said:

Let's be honest, the 'additional' slabs probably don't exist - why would only these alleged 'spare' ones be delivered to the landscaper and not with the original batch that have already been fitted (presumably delivered to the OP's address?)
...

The OP explained, the number required was miscalculated and there were too few to finish the job.  The landscaper ordered more, for delivery to his property as there would be nobody at the OP's property to accept delivery.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that for me! Although, actually you were wrong to surmise there would have been nobody at my property. This was one of the annoying things. When the landscaper found out, 2 days prior, that his labourer was unable to attend, he took it upon himself to change the location, blaming his stresses on forgetting to let us know. It was only when we asked for an ETA that he told us of the change of plan. To give him the benefit of the doubt we do have physical health problems so he may have assumed we'd have been unable to shift them, but even if that was true we could have asked a neighbour for assistance.

silvercar said:

If you collect the slabs, there is less chance the builder will get them laid correctly.

I didn't understand this comment, I'm afraid?

Yorkie1 said:

Presumably, the quote and subsequent contract was based on xxx number of slabs for the job.

The number of slabs wasn't quoted. The covering note says "the price includes ... a walkway to the greenhouse". The quote itself doesn't even state a quantity of slabs for the patio, instead saying how many metres squared would be covered and saying "the path should go all the way to the greenhouse".


My father actually made enquiries at the police station today. They, to my surprise, have said to him that if we have told him in advance that we are coming, we can come to collect them. We should take a copy of the email with us, and ring the doorbell. The officer advised that if he kicks up a fuss we should just leave. Apart from that there should be no problem.

Thanks again for everybody's input.

Section62

CTM80 said:

Thank you for all the replies on this.

Section62 said:

TheSpectator said:

Let's be honest, the 'additional' slabs probably don't exist - why would only these alleged 'spare' ones be delivered to the landscaper and not with the original batch that have already been fitted (presumably delivered to the OP's address?)
...

The OP explained, the number required was miscalculated and there were too few to finish the job.  The landscaper ordered more, for delivery to his property as there would be nobody at the OP's property to accept delivery.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that for me! Although, actually you were wrong to surmise there would have been nobody at my property. This was one of the annoying things. When the landscaper found out, 2 days prior, that his labourer was unable to attend, he took it upon himself to change the location, blaming his stresses on forgetting to let us know. It was only when we asked for an ETA that he told us of the change of plan. To give him the benefit of the doubt we do have physical health problems so he may have assumed we'd have been unable to shift them, but even if that was true we could have asked a neighbour for assistance.

I meant nobody from the landscaper's side.

I don't know what your area is like, but in some parts of the country there are problems with theft of building materials, and also problems with councils treating materials left on the highway as flytipping.  As well as the possibility of him taking your health problems into account, he may just have wanted to avoid the complication of you taking responsibility for the delivery.  Believe it or not some clients promise to be at home at a specific time, but then decide to go out, or an emergency happens and they have to be elsewhere.

Something else which might be a factor (just guessing) is 10 slabs plus some sand and cement is quite a small delivery... is it possible he opted to have the stuff delivered to him because he was combining orders to get free/discounted delivery?

CTM80 said:

My father actually made enquiries at the police station today. They, to my surprise, have said to him that if we have told him in advance that we are coming, we can come to collect them. We should take a copy of the email with us, and ring the doorbell. The officer advised that if he kicks up a fuss we should just leave. Apart from that there should be no problem.

The police aren't always good at giving advice on the law, especially on civil and contract related stuff. The police don't police contracts. The only part of that advice I'd rely on is that you 'should just leave' if you found yourself in that situation.

The point remains that you can't prove that any slabs you did find on his driveway belong to you.  You actually summed this up in your thread title by saying the slabs are owed to you, which isn't the same as any particular slabs being owned by you.  Keep trying to contact the landscaper and hopefully get his agreement to you collecting the outstanding materials.

WIAWSNB

CTM80 said:

My father actually made enquiries at the police station today. They, to my surprise, have said to him that if we have told him in advance that we are coming, we can come to collect them. We should take a copy of the email with us, and ring the doorbell. The officer advised that if he kicks up a fuss we should just leave. Apart from that there should be no problem.

Thanks again for everybody's input.

The police officer's advice was both practical and prudent. He added all the necessary caveats to ensure no remotely criminal act could possibly occur. It's almost as tho' they'd read my posts.

cough

CTM80

Thanks again for all the replies here. With emails no longer being replied to, I've made a related thread in the consumer rights section, which interested readers can see here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6606224/landscaper-not-completing-job-how-to-resolve/p1

FreeBear

CTM80 said: My father actually made enquiries at the police station today. They, to my surprise, have said to him that if we have told him in advance that we are coming, we can come to collect them.

Just be mindful of how heavy slabs can be and the weight limit of your vehicle.

I had a stack of large utility slabs, and each one was a little over 50kg. It wouldn't take many to overload a small car once you've included driver & passenger.

CTM80

FreeBear said:

CTM80 said: My father actually made enquiries at the police station today. They, to my surprise, have said to him that if we have told him in advance that we are coming, we can come to collect them.

Just be mindful of how heavy slabs can be and the weight limit of your vehicle.

I had a stack of large utility slabs, and each one was a little over 50kg. It wouldn't take many to overload a small car once you've included driver & passenger.

Thanks. It's not a small car. It normally has a mobility buggy in the back. I'm sure it could easily manage half a dozen. My brother would be helping in his own car so could take the other four. Well, that's my guess on how we'd distribute them anyway!

WIAWSNB

If you do decide to take direct action to remove them, remember the police's advice, and also have your phone set to record.

Cover yer butt... :-)

Risteard

Stupid advice from the Peelers. They're not lawyers. They are in no way competent to issue legal advice.