I got a CIFAS for receiving £85 for jackets

grumpy_codger

danny13579 said:

I suspect there's a lot more going on here than the OP is telling us.

Reasons why Monzo may close your account immediately.

... if we believe you've...

Well, if they believe in something, how is the OP supposed to know about their beliefs?

mintyjelly447

TheBanker said:

The terms and conditions probably prohibit you using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else. Hence mis-use of facility.

It is possible (probable?) that your friend was scamming people. That would be why they could not use their own account, and the scam victims bank would have told Monzo. 

But that is not fraudulent, so how do I have a two year marker?

Hoenir

mintyjelly447 said:

So in October I received £85 on behalf of my friend for jackets that he was selling because he was unable to receive the funds. 

Why?  Determine that and you'll understand why you received a marker. 

mintyjelly447

boingy said:

That friend is not your friend. They're using you as a money mule and you are now paying the price.

I thought that money mules take £000s, this was £85. I asked him was it legitimate money after I got the marker and he said it was so I don't know what to do anymore

mintyjelly447

grumpy_codger said:

Why did the bank have questions about some minuscule £85? The problem is likely to be with the payer's account.

Does the friend really sell any jackets? If he does, nowadays it's very dangerous to receive bank transfers from strangers.

And I don't think that T&C really "prohibit ... using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else" and that this "sounds like misuse of a personal bank account".

Do you think they sent illicit funds into my account leading me to have this, if so, how can I prove my innocence of me not knowing?

dumpster_fire2025

mintyjelly447 said:

TheBanker said:

The terms and conditions probably prohibit you using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else. Hence mis-use of facility.

It is possible (probable?) that your friend was scamming people. That would be why they could not use their own account, and the scam victims bank would have told Monzo. 

But that is not fraudulent, so how do I have a two year marker?

They probably think you're a money mule. Given that you've taken in a payment, and then passed it on to someone else and had no other involvement with the transaction, you are.

As I said in my reply, a bank querying an £85 transaction is in itself highly suspicious, which points to something being a massive red flag in this transaction.

mintyjelly447

dumpster_fire2025 said:

mintyjelly447 said:

TheBanker said:

The terms and conditions probably prohibit you using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else. Hence mis-use of facility.

It is possible (probable?) that your friend was scamming people. That would be why they could not use their own account, and the scam victims bank would have told Monzo. 

But that is not fraudulent, so how do I have a two year marker?

They probably think you're a money mule. Given that you've taken in a payment, and then passed it on to someone else and had no other involvement with the transaction, you are.

As I said in my reply, a bank querying an £85 transaction is in itself highly suspicious, which points to something being a massive red flag in this transaction.

So is there anything I can do to prove that I am not? 

TheBanker

mintyjelly447 said:

dumpster_fire2025 said:

mintyjelly447 said:

TheBanker said:

The terms and conditions probably prohibit you using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else. Hence mis-use of facility.

It is possible (probable?) that your friend was scamming people. That would be why they could not use their own account, and the scam victims bank would have told Monzo. 

But that is not fraudulent, so how do I have a two year marker?

They probably think you're a money mule. Given that you've taken in a payment, and then passed it on to someone else and had no other involvement with the transaction, you are.

As I said in my reply, a bank querying an £85 transaction is in itself highly suspicious, which points to something being a massive red flag in this transaction.

So is there anything I can do to prove that I am not? 

When Monzo contacted you about the £85 (was it just one £85 or have there been other similar payments) you would have had the opportunity to explain the transaction. What did you tell them, and what supporting evidence did you provide? They were obviously not happy with whatever you told them.

The fact they were even looking at an £85 payment implies the person who sent they payment had reported it as a scam to their own bank. That bank will have informed Monzo that your account had been used to receive fraudulent funds. You would have needed to prove that the person who bought the jacket received what they paid for. I suspect this would not be possible when you were not actually a party to the transaction other than a 'middleman' (aka money mule) receiving the funds and passing them on.

You say your friend could not use his own bank account, but why not? Is it possible his own account was suspended because of similar allegations? You refer to 'jackets' not 'a jacket' - is your friend running a business rather than selling unwanted personal items? Who is this 'friend'? Are they someone you've known for a long time, or just someone you've 'met' on social media?

As I said it is too late to save your Monzo account but you may be able to make a complaint about the CIFAS marker. You'd do this to Monzo and then to the Financial Ombudsman Service if you are unhappy with Monzo's response. The FOS can order a bank to remove a CIFAS marker, but it's rare for them to do so as the banks can generally provide sufficient evidence that the marker is valid.

If you search the published decisions on the FOS website, you will fine a few recent cases involving Monzo and CIFAS markers. None of these will exactly match your circumstances, but it might be worth doing this research before deciding on your next steps.

grumpy_codger

mintyjelly447 said:

grumpy_codger said:

Why did the bank have questions about some minuscule £85? The problem is likely to be with the payer's account.

Does the friend really sell any jackets? If he does, nowadays it's very dangerous to receive bank transfers from strangers.

And I don't think that T&C really "prohibit ... using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else" and that this "sounds like misuse of a personal bank account".

Do you think they sent illicit funds into my account leading me to have this,

IMO, there are two possibilities:

• Your friend doesn't sell anything and just creates visibility of this activity for receiving illicit funds, essentially laundering them.
• Your friend is a victim of a scammer who paid him and then complained to his bank that he was scammed by your friend.

if so, how can I prove my innocence of me not knowing?

Unfortunately, arrogant banks often (usually?) don't want any proofs. In our banking industry the principle "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't exist.

TheBanker

grumpy_codger said:

mintyjelly447 said:

grumpy_codger said:

Why did the bank have questions about some minuscule £85? The problem is likely to be with the payer's account.

Does the friend really sell any jackets? If he does, nowadays it's very dangerous to receive bank transfers from strangers.

And I don't think that T&C really "prohibit ... using your account to receive or hold money that belongs to someone else" and that this "sounds like misuse of a personal bank account".

Do you think they sent illicit funds into my account leading me to have this,

IMO, there are two possibilities:

• Your friend doesn't sell anything and just creates visibility of this activity for receiving illicit funds, essentially laundering them.
• Your friend is a victim of a scammer who paid him and then complained to his bank that he was scammed by your friend.

if so, how can I prove my innocence of me not knowing?

Unfortunately, arrogant banks often (usually?) don't want any proofs. In our banking industry the principle "innocent until proved guilty" doesn't exist.

That's not really true - CIFAS rules set out what a bank must do prior to adding a CIFAS marker, and the Financial Ombudsman Service will consider complaints where the customer believes the marker is incorrect. FOS do sometimes order banks to remove the marker, but in the majority of cases they agree that the bank had sufficient evidence to apply the marker.

It is true that the standard of proof is lower than that required to secure a criminal conviction for fraud (balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt), but it is not true to say that banks apply CIFAS markers without any proof. This proof does not necessarily come from the customer, it can come from the victim, the victim's bank, or other sources.

I have to add though, in a previous role I was one of a small number of staff who could authorise a CIFAS marker for a bank. This was not something we did lightly, and in all the cases I saw there was sufficient evidence that the customer had indeed misused their banking facilities. A lot of the 'proof' customers submitted was just excuses ('my friend told me to do it', 'I didn't understand'...) or was blatently made up ('I didn't know anything about it' despite the funds being withdrawn a few minutes after receipt using a card and PIN that had not been reported stolen, and were regularly used by the customer before and after the transaction in question).

I make no comment on what's happened to the OP other than I would be very surprised if what we've been told here is the full story. Note that he has not answered the obvious question - why did his friend need to use his account to receive these funds in the first place? That's an immediate red flag to me and if he's side-stepped the bank's questioning in the same way it won't have helped his case.