Standing Charges: Gas & Electricity

MarzipanCrumble

I am a pensioner.  I don't need the WFA.  Why can't the government exclude it for higher tax pensioners?  Surely HMRC 'knows' who pays the various levels of tax and their age?

Edit: BTW I agree that 'poor' non pensioners should have an equivalent but suspect there are more of them than us.

Scot_39

Far simpler just to make it taxable.  Like the pension it comes with - if you actually claim the state pension that is (its not just given you actually have to actively claim it - admittedly your notified and its a simple process - unlike other benefits).

Poor pay 0 tax - keep 100%
Basic rate keep 80%
Higher rate 60%
Upper rate 55%  - if even bother claiming at the top end.

But the (now very high since Cons inc threshold by 10k and band to 20k - so upto 80k when zero gain per person in couple ) high income child benefit tax shows tapers are possible when their is political will to do so.

QrizB

Scot_39 said:

Far simpler just to make it taxable.  Like the pension it comes with

And if you're going to do that, it might as well be part of the State Pension. Every pensioner gets an extra £X per week from December to February, for example.

Scot_39 said:

But the (now very high since Cons inc threshold by 10k and band to 20k - so upto 80k when zero gain per person in couple ) high income child benefit tax shows tapers are possible when their is political will to do so.

See also student loan repayments as another example of conditional income tax. If it can be done for graduates and parents, it can be done for pensioners.

HillStreetBlues

QrizB said:

Scot_39 said:

Far simpler just to make it taxable.  Like the pension it comes with

And if you're going to do that, it might as well be part of the State Pension. Every pensioner gets an extra £X per week from December to February, for example.

That wouldn't work, as those on Pension Credit wouldn't benefit from the payment, would be exact opposite of the current system.

Scot_39

QrizB said:

Scot_39 said:

Far simpler just to make it taxable.  Like the pension it comes with

And if you're going to do that, it might as well be part of the State Pension. Every pensioner gets an extra £X per week from December to February, for example.

Or simply subtract it from everyone whk benefits tax code as already hapens with state pension - and leave it paid as was to avoid such a complex payment system change.

Edit

Especially as their are already reports in some news media - DWP are already arguing complexity of IT modification as a reason that changes - if any - if only finalised / announced in say Oct budget -will not be able to be implemented this winter.

Spoonie_Turtle

Baldeagle095 said:

Well then have the WFA means-tested with all higher rate taxpayers excluded.

Means testing costs money, that's why they used eligibility for Pension Credit (which is already fully means-tested) as the proxy.

QrizB

HillStreetBlues said:

QrizB said:

Scot_39 said:

Far simpler just to make it taxable.  Like the pension it comes with

And if you're going to do that, it might as well be part of the State Pension. Every pensioner gets an extra £X per week from December to February, for example.

That wouldn't work, as those on Pension Credit wouldn't benefit from the payment, would be exact opposite of the current system.

Most folk on PC are also receiving some sort of State Pension, I believe?

Scot_39

QrizB said:

HillStreetBlues said:

QrizB said:

Scot_39 said:

Far simpler just to make it taxable.  Like the pension it comes with

And if you're going to do that, it might as well be part of the State Pension. Every pensioner gets an extra £X per week from December to February, for example.

That wouldn't work, as those on Pension Credit wouldn't benefit from the payment, would be exact opposite of the current system.

Most folk on PC are also receiving some sort of State Pension, I believe?

Think the point being made is that pension credit in itself has iirc a definite ceiling to top up to - yes see gov uk below - in terms of direct income.

[However as your already then judged very poor - its normally worth £100 or £1000s more - as qualifies you to claim other discounts and freebies more easily - like council tax relief, dentist fees (on NHS) etc.  If IIRC DWP ave estimate published last summer was somewhere in the mid to high £3000s pa equiv for uplift and savings]

So if put on pension - youd also have to put on ceiling pension credit uplift level too - the £227/£346 below. (Or simply freeze the difference - the amount of £xx uplift paid )

Otherwise £150+say X pw =£10 topped up to £227 / £346 as below - would be no higher potentially than £150 without the X-£10 say topped up to the same level - so would lose the £10

From https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit/what-youll-get

"What you'll get

Pension Credit tops up:

• your weekly income to £227.10 if you’re single
• your joint weekly income to £346.60 if you have a partner"

wrf12345

Have they already got rid of the dept in NI that used to administer WFA and moved it into the benefits admin? Seems likely as Angela Rayner has said she could not guarantee getting the reformed system up and running by this winter. The old system managed to give out money on a household rather than individual basis so that single pensioners were not at a disadvantage compared to couples - it could be given to all pensioners and then reclaimed as part of the income tax return for those on say more than 20k income as a workaround.