Flight delayed, compensation denied (shocker) but ...

Susaq1623

Hi, I was due to fly from Arricife (ACE) to Cardiff (CWL).
The plane was late to arrive at ACE from CWL (the inbound flight) due to the wind and arrived at 13:34 instead of around 10am. It had been redirected to Fuerteventura.
At 15:59 I left ACE but due to crew hours were flown to Tenerife where I spent the night.
The flight from Tenerife to CWL was scheduled for 10.10 but again was delayed by passport control (no issues for any of the passengers, just the crew) and we eventually left at 11:47, arriving at CWL at 15:18.
The airline have used the weather as the exceptional reason for not paying any compensation. While I understand the inbound flight was delayed due to this, my flight was not. 
I can attach their full reply if anyone is able to help please.
Thank you 

MeteredOut

Which airline and flight number?

Susaq1623

Hi, it was TUI, flight number TOM6423.

jimi_man

It looks like there are two events here. The first one, where your flight was delayed significantly because of the late arriving aircraft. That caused you to spend a night in Tenerife. Being over three hours would put you in line for compensation however as it was due to the weather, it’s beyond the airline’s control so no compensation is likely to be payable. 

The second event was passport control - also likely to be beyond the airlines control - however it doesn’t seem to have resulted in a delay of more than three hours?

Unless I’m missing something I can’t see a valid claim with either event?

Obviously the airline has a duty of care to look after you overnight in Tenerife - hopefully they did that. 

Susaq1623

jimi_man said:

It looks like there are two events here. The first one, where your flight was delayed significantly because of the late arriving aircraft. That caused you to spend a night in Tenerife. Being over three hours would put you in line for compensation however as it was due to the weather, it’s beyond the airline’s control so no compensation is likely to be payable. 

The second event was passport control - also likely to be beyond the airlines control - however it doesn’t seem to have resulted in a delay of more than three hours?

Unless I’m missing something I can’t see a valid claim with either event?

Obviously the airline has a duty of care to look after you overnight in Tenerife - hopefully they did that. 

Thank you. You're correct with the incoming flight being delayed due to the weather but I ended up in Tenerife due to crew flying hours. Had they had sufficient time they could have taken me to Cardiff. 
Does this change anything? If not I won't waste my time persuing compensation.

jimi_man

The crew flying hours were related to the weather extending their day. If there hadn’t been bad weather then they’d have got to you on time and then taken you home. So ultimately it would be the weather to blame. 

Personally I think you’d have no chance at a claim but others might disagree. 

mdann52

It's a difficult one. 

If airline can demonstrate that there were no reasonable steps they could have taken to reduce your delay following the bad weather, they likely are not liable for compensation. So, for example, if they couldn't arrange for a replacement crew or aircraft once they knew the weather was incoming, they likely have a get out.

There's no harm putting the claim in, as it's the airlines burden to prove this point, not the passengers

brianposter

mdann52 said:

There's no harm putting the claim in, as it's the airlines burden to prove this point, not the passengers

I cannot see much point in wasting everybodys time.

mdann52

brianposter said:

mdann52 said:

There's no harm putting the claim in, as it's the airlines burden to prove this point, not the passengers

I cannot see much point in wasting everybodys time.

But it's likely not a waste of everyone's time. You could say the same about many of the cases that have gone to court and resulted in the shaping of EU261 into what it is.

The airline have claimed an exemption but have to date provided no evidence to support that. Blanche v easyJet may provide the airline a defence here, but only if there was no other option the would have reduced the delay (for example, a standby crew, an alternative plane, or rebooking the passengers onto another carrier)

This isn't the strongest case, but it's also not a hopeless case. If OP takes it further, they can at least find out.

Airlines don't preemptively pay out EU261 compensation when it's owed to a passenger - if they did, I'd have a different view on things. Making them prove they've taken reasonable steps under circumstances like this where it isn't clear cut isn't a waste of time to me. 

Grumpy_chap

There seem to be some odd decisions taken along the way.

The inbound flight was delayed by the weather so the OP's flight from Lanzarote was delayed.  The airline will justifiably consider the root cause is the weather so outside their control.

The delayed flight took off but was diverted to Tenerife due to the crew exceeding permitted flying hours.  This resulted in the overnight delay.  Assume the OP was provided suitable board in Tenerife.
This part does not make sense to me.  A flight from Lanzarote to Cardiff will take around 4 hours.  The airline will have known prior to departure that this is the case and that the 4-hour duration would exceed crew hours.  I am confused as to why the airline would depart Lanzarote knowing the crew could not complete the journey.  The diversion to Tenerife is further from Cardiff (or certainly no nearer) than the start point.

Then the next day, there was a further delay in the departure from Tenerife apparently because of a passport control issue related to some of the crew.
This part also does not make sense to me.  Everyone on that plane, whether passenger or crew, presumably had the correct paperwork and permissions to enter Lanzarote - hence, Spain - and the entry requirements for Tenerife - also Spain - are the same so far as I am aware.

Although I think the OP has limited chance of a successful claim, a query to seek clarification on the statements that appear to have been made by the airline seems reasonable.

bagand96

Grumpy_chap said:

There seem to be some odd decisions taken along the way.

The inbound flight was delayed by the weather so the OP's flight from Lanzarote was delayed.  The airline will justifiably consider the root cause is the weather so outside their control.

The delayed flight took off but was diverted to Tenerife due to the crew exceeding permitted flying hours.  This resulted in the overnight delay.  Assume the OP was provided suitable board in Tenerife.
This part does not make sense to me.  A flight from Lanzarote to Cardiff will take around 4 hours.  The airline will have known prior to departure that this is the case and that the 4-hour duration would exceed crew hours.  I am confused as to why the airline would depart Lanzarote knowing the crew could not complete the journey.  The diversion to Tenerife is further from Cardiff (or certainly no nearer) than the start point.

Likely availability of hotel rooms for passengers and crew, if Lanzarote had experienced a lot of disruption that day short notice hotel rooms may have been an issue at a peak time.

But could also be availability of replacement crew or engineering cover for the aircraft. In this case those are unlikely  but an examples of the sort of issues TUI would have been juggling.  Won't have been a cheap exercise so I doubt it was for fun.