Landlord unknown (Retail shop boarded up)

mikey3000

Hi, i've received a £100 fine for overstaying at a car park. I'm looking to appeal to the landlord but as as stated above the previous retailer have moved out and the car park is controlled by ECP. Is there any way to learn who the landlord is? If not, should I just appeal to ECP?
Thanks in advance!

Gr1pr

A very common question on here, so I have linked the common reply advice below 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6337652/how-to-find-details-of-landowner

Ps,  you definitely do not have a fine,  you have an invoice from ECP,  a Parking Charge Notice 

mikey3000

So the landlord is either A&J Mucklow whos number is left on busy or Hornbeam Venture limited but I can't find other contact details...

Gr1pr

You can appeal to ECP if you wish, but it will be rejected if an overstay occurred,  meaning that you wont win based on that aspect unless it was say 10 minutes 

mikey3000

They're stating I was in the car park for 1 hour and 14 minutes but I only paid for an hour. I have since checked my account as I paid online, I went over by 8 minutes from the time I paid to the the time I left.

Gr1pr

They are stating that the vehicle   ( not you  ) was on that private property from entry to exit and the underpayment was for every minute over the 60 minutes, which started the countdown clock on entry and with a grace period of 10 minutes,  making 70 minutes in total

The vehicle went beyond the 70 minutes allowed, so the underpayment increases minute by minute from the 60 minutes that was paid for until the exit time , so 74 minutes minus 60 minutes is 14 minutes unpaid 

ECP monitor car parks from entry to exit,  at or near the entry and exit points,  regardless of when money was paid

So it wasnt an overstay,  it was underpayment for the total time on site

If you paid for 4 pints of milk at a farm shop dispensary machine ( with honesty box  ) , you dont get to take 5 pints, an extra 25%

Overstays occur on free to park car parks , ones with rules listed on the signs,  including maximum stay periods

Coupon-mad

 it was underpayment for the total time on site.

No it wasn't.

That's repeating PPC World nonsense!

The OP was not parked for that time so there was no underpayment and the 'extra 25% pints of milk' analogy just isn't relevant. 

We should never be spouting PPC World's BS as if it's fair or true. We all know what the real code of practice said about Parking Periods.

Gr1pr

We will have to agree to disagree on this type of issue,  because it is my honest opinion which I'm entitled to write on here , its my code that I live by, pay your way,  in full, not some party line,  we are not back slapping yes people like Trump yes men, you have your code, and opinions, I have mine,  they are not identical   !  I will not be changing my moral compass just to suit other people 

I definitely dont like this currently unregulated industry,  but I do believe in the principle of full payment where required,  be it from entry to exit,  or the parking period itself , whatever the contract states

My point was explaining their position,  their party line,  as opposed to a case of overstay like the Beavis case,  which many people seem to apply on paid for car parks, that was my definition of an overstay,  even though I backed his campaign at the time 

Assuming that the facility to pay for 90 minutes or 2 hours was available to the driver,  then if paid correctly there would be no pcn , no issue,  if the driver had left 5 or10 minutes earlier there would be no pcn, no issue 

I do believe that there should be a way to compensate the parking company for any shortfall,  such as £10 in this case,  but ECP don't make that offer,  sticking to the default £100 charge I assume , which neither of us agree with 

So please don't tell me what my opinion is,  I respect your opinions even if I dont agree with some of them, but I have respected them for over a decade,  ditto with a few other forum members here where I might disagree with their opinions too. I stated my personal opinion and overview of the case as presented.

The OP needs a better legal point if appealing it, or argue it in court if ECP finally took one there,  like Parking Eye have done previously.   And yes we all know that ECP and DCB Legal usually discontinue claims, so far, so it would be patronising to reply stating that fact,  it's on the forum with dozens of examples

By all means get it all sorted out on the steering group at the MHCLG, but that saga is never ending,  perhaps in my grandkids lifetime when all vehicles are electric,  with trackers and cameras, so in another 6 to 10 years time 

Deepy said it would be all over by Christmas,  6 years ago,  he never said which Christmas he meant , probably 2035

mikey3000

Should I send this template?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou#latest:~:text=I dispute your,by the landowner.

mikey3000

mikey3000 said:

Should I send this template?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou#latest:~:text=I dispute your,by the landowner.

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Coupon-mad

Gr1pr said:

You can appeal to ECP if you wish, but it will be rejected if an overstay occurred,  meaning that you wont win based on that aspect unless it was say 10 minutes 

As above.

Appeal if you want. It is a farce.

It'll be rejected of course, then you can explain to POPLA (if you bother) and talk about why it took 4 minutes to find a space and park, then walk to the machine/signs and pay. Thus there was no overstay - the contract began when the button was pressed to pay - and the driver left within the minimum ten minute grace period.

Ignore POPLA if you lose. No paying.

You could just sit tight and ignore. Tell them if you move house, of course, but that's just common sense & not parking law related.