DWP proposals

Pip_cas1

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

HillStreetBlues

Pip_cas1 said:

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

ATM the only way the DWP can check a claimants bank account to to ask them to supply the info, or if they suspect fraud. They can not currently do a fishing expedition on bank accounts.

born_again

Pip_cas1 said:

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

DWP can not directly access your bank account yet. They have to go through a official anti fraud process to gain access via banks.
Which would also mean you get called in under caution to explain yourself.

Of course people try to hide savings, or this would not be changing.

Although this site gave me a laugh...
When applying for benefits like Personal Independence Payment (PIP) or other financial support, many people are surprised to learn that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) may carry out checks on their bank accounts.

Shame that it appears, they seem to think PIP is means tested, as that is the only reason to check your accounts.

https://i-cann.net/dwp-bank-account-checks-what-you-need-to-know

Pip_cas1

HillStreetBlues said:

Pip_cas1 said:

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

ATM the only way the DWP can check a claimants bank account to to ask them to supply the info, or if they suspect fraud. They can not currently do a fishing expedition on bank accounts.

Ah my mistake, well once that comes in there'll be a lot of reductions  lol

HillStreetBlues

born_again said:

When applying for benefits like Personal Independence Payment (PIP) or other financial support, many people are surprised to learn that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) may carry out checks on their bank accounts.

Shame that it appears, they seem to think PIP is means tested, as that is the only reason to check your accounts.

Their reasoning is to check for overseas transactions to see if a person is away longer than they should be.

Muttleythefrog

Pip_cas1 said:

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

I stand to be corrected but I think the DWP get some basic information on accounts that may imply their existence and possibly significant savings... not detail at transactional level currently unless with fraud investigation powers. I'm sure many do not declare capital over the limits... we have posters open threads on MSE sometimes who don't even seem to realise what capital they should have declared.

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Pip_cas1 said:

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

I stand to be corrected but I think the DWP get some basic information on accounts that may imply their existence and possibly significant savings... not detail at transactional level currently unless with fraud investigation powers. I'm sure many do not declare capital over the limits... we have posters open threads on MSE sometimes who don't even seem to realise what capital they should have declared.

HMRC send DWP info so if money is in an ISA then the DWP is informed.
AIUI the banks can't share info unless fraud is suspected and same with DWP.

TimeLord1

Even if a bank suspects it they can close your account pretty quickly. They have conditions and rules and their own bots soon flag up anything that doesn't fit.

Pip_cas1

TimeLord1 said:

Even if a bank suspects it they can close your account pretty quickly. They have conditions and rules and their own bots soon flag up anything that doesn't fit.

The bank can close your account if you have more than £16000 and claiming UC?   Is that what you mean?   

Muttleythefrog

Pip_cas1 said:

TimeLord1 said:

Even if a bank suspects it they can close your account pretty quickly. They have conditions and rules and their own bots soon flag up anything that doesn't fit.

The bank can close your account if you have more than £16000 and claiming UC?   Is that what you mean?   

Banks have to make sure they are not being used for money laundering or other criminal activity. Such suspicions could lead to account suspension and relevant reports to authorities... or the other way around. They're not benefits experts though and people could legitimately claim UC and have savings over that amount - as I did after selling my house (proceeds disregarded for a period) and intending to buy another home. People won't necessarily hold all their capital in a single bank account either.

The secret is to be honest and give any benefit affecting updated capital amounts. Then there is no issue... any investigation caused by suspicions or bank flags etc will only ultimately discover or reveal relevant facts you've provided or that their information is wrong. I'm mindful however that in previous posting you've said "we previously recieved UC, however when it was discovered we had reached savings more than £16000 the claim was stopped"... do not allow history to repeat itself! 

NedS

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Pip_cas1 said:

For a long time now it's been publicised the DWP are going to have the power to access people's bank accounts in an attempt to stop fraud. UC has a threshold of £16,000, surely they've been able to check that previously, do people really not declare savings above that when it's so easy to discover?

I stand to be corrected but I think the DWP get some basic information on accounts that may imply their existence and possibly significant savings... not detail at transactional level currently unless with fraud investigation powers. I'm sure many do not declare capital over the limits... we have posters open threads on MSE sometimes who don't even seem to realise what capital they should have declared.

HMRC send DWP info so if money is in an ISA then the DWP is informed.
AIUI the banks can't share info unless fraud is suspected and same with DWP.

Correct, all financial institutions report any potentially taxable (interest) payments to HMRC together with the amount of tax deducted (banks used to deduct tax at source on earned interest but no longer do so, but are still obliged to report to HMRC). HMRC can estimate the balance of the account from the interest payments made and can use that information to raise flags with DWP where the account owner is in receipt of a means-tested benefit.

The new measures go a little further in allowing the banks to share information directly with DWP cutting out HMRC, but they are not providing unrestricted access, only raising flags as above for further investigation where balances or other suspicious activity (e.g, foreign transactions) exceed thresholds. Once a flag is raised, DWP would contact the account owner and ask them to provide statements for the period they have been claiming means-tested benefits. If the refuse, and DWP have reasonable grounds to suspect fraud, then I think the fraud investigation teams can request more information directly from the bank but normally that information would still come directly from the claimant, not directly from the bank.

The press have chosen to misrepresent that as DWP having powers to access your bank account and snoop on you which is not the case (as far as I understand the new laws). 

The new laws will simply make it easier (and more accurate) for DWP to detect and reduce fraud and non-compliance in the system. What is far more interesting is some of the AI methods that are being developed and are not being talked about for obvious reasons.

IMHO overall these are all good things for tax payers and benefit claimants alike. DWP losses to fraud each year is around the same as the recently announced benefit cuts, so if they could eliminate fraud from the system, those cuts would not be needed. Personally I'd much rather see more stringent anti-fraud measures than cutting the benefits of the vulnerable and disabled.