hmrc not with it

[Deleted User]

TheSpectator said:

northernstar007 said:

TheSpectator said:

[Deleted User] said:

eskbanker said:

redpete said:

Hoenir said:

eskbanker said:

It's all these complexities that make it very difficult to construct a question that HMRC can answer with a simple yes/no, and it's always going to be a bit of a lottery phoning them and hoping that each party understands exactly what the other one is (and isn't) saying!

HMRC aren't there to provide a free advice service ( and later getting slammed for misleading or incorrect advice that the individul acts upon ! ). 

They are certainly not there to provide an advice service as in the sort of advice an IFA might give you - i.e. their opinion on what would be the 'best' course of action for you to take. But HMRC are there to give you advice that covers matters of facts of UK tax regulations.

Where are you sourcing this from, i.e. where is this obligation defined?

Your question is irrelevant  It's pure common sense to expect someone to do their job efficiently and to know/understand all matters related to their job.  Maybe not necessarily give advise as such, but I would expect HMRC staff to know and be able to quote succinctly, all matters related to UK tax legislation. 

What the OP had asked is a very simple question and I would expect an HMRC employee to know the answer.  But clearly, the fact that this service agent did not know and gone to the point of giving a wrong reply shows the pathetic level of incompetence HMRC staff really are.  Absolute disgrace and should not be tolerated or indeed defended.      

So you expect all HMRC staff to be able to know and quote all UK tax legislation? That's quite an ask for a front line advisor just above minimum wage.

Anyways, sometimes poor wording of the questions will give an inaccurate response. i.e. you may think you are asking X but you are asking Y and we don't know exactly what OP asked.

if they didnt know the answer they shouldnt be in the job they are paid for as they are a cival servant which my taxes are paying there wages to answer me

As the saying goes......pay peanuts.....

So is that you way of admitting we're having to put up with monkeys.  LOL Not that I have anything against monkeys - 
some can argue the point that they are a better species than humans!! 

redpete

eskbanker said:

redpete said:

eskbanker said:

redpete said:

Hoenir said:

eskbanker said:

It's all these complexities that make it very difficult to construct a question that HMRC can answer with a simple yes/no, and it's always going to be a bit of a lottery phoning them and hoping that each party understands exactly what the other one is (and isn't) saying!

HMRC aren't there to provide a free advice service ( and later getting slammed for misleading or incorrect advice that the individul acts upon ! ). 

They are certainly not there to provide an advice service as in the sort of advice an IFA might give you - i.e. their opinion on what would be the 'best' course of action for you to take. But HMRC are there to give you advice that covers matters of facts of UK tax regulations.

Where are you sourcing this from, i.e. where is this obligation defined?

From my head, my expectation when asking a representative of an organisation about how that organisation works.

But that's an important distinction - OP's question wasn't about how the organisation works, they were seeking guidance about the tax system itself, which is a very different matter, so it remains a stretch to assert that "HMRC are there to give you advice that covers matters of facts of UK tax regulations", even though they should be able to advise on, for example, whether an individual needs to self-assess, or what the deadlines are, etc.

Representatives of an organisation can't be expected to answer everything - if you get on a bus and ask the driver for information about the route or tickets then they should be able to share relevant and accurate information, but if you ask for details about the bus company's profitability or the capacity of the engine, that's going to be out of scope, although I do agree with the point that if unable to answer a question then it's ultimately more helpful to admit to that rather than guessing and getting it wrong.

I'll admit that advice on "how the organisation works" was poor phraseology, better would be "how the organisation implements the various tax regulations", but I'm sure that could also be improved.

Some info from HMRC on the support they should give people:

We will monitor calls and correspondence with HMRC to identify customers who may need extra help. This could include difficulties caused by their confidence, access, emotional state, mental health, capability, difficulties in understanding what they need to do, and disability. We will also ask customers to tell us if they need extra support.

Our advisers will then transfer calls to our Extra Support Team who have appropriate skills, knowledge and empathy to provide support and reasonable adjustments to meet customers’ needs. They will also provide single points of contact to resolve difficult queries.

My emphasis in bold. This comes from "HMRC’s principles of support for customers who need extra help".

eskbanker

redpete said:

Some info from HMRC on the support they should give people:

We will monitor calls and correspondence with HMRC to identify customers who may need extra help. This could include difficulties caused by their confidence, access, emotional state, mental health, capability, difficulties in understanding what they need to do, and disability. We will also ask customers to tell us if they need extra support.

Our advisers will then transfer calls to our Extra Support Team who have appropriate skills, knowledge and empathy to provide support and reasonable adjustments to meet customers’ needs. They will also provide single points of contact to resolve difficult queries.

My emphasis in bold. This comes from "HMRC’s principles of support for customers who need extra help".

As stated, that's specifically their approach to customers deemed to need extra support by virtue of physical or mental conditions, i.e. measures to comply with equalities legislation rather than being a template for everyone.  The wording you bold simply reflects that if a question is too difficult to answer immediately, they'll find out and get back to the customer, not necessarily on the same call, but doesn't actually commit to answering a wider range of queries as such.