Faulty Radiators / Sale of Goods Act

DullGreyGuy

Gingergirliew said:

Undervalued said:

Gingergirliew said:

I am looking for some advice/guidance from members please.

We recently purchased a new radiator and had it installed by a professional engineer.  The radiator is not heating up properly - it gets hot at the top but not at the bottom.  The radiator company have advised various actions to resolve the issue - none have worked.  They state that the pipework may not be big enough for the 3 panel radiator - however we did have radiators there previously and these worked fine.

The engineer has been back a number of times and can find no way of resolving the issue.

We would like to return the radiator /get it replaced as we believe it is faulty and that there is nothing on the website stating that the radiator requires a certain size of pipework to operate effectively.

Can anyone advise on our rights in this instance to return/ask for an exchange please

I am not clear, did you buy the radiator directly from a plumbers' merchant then separately hire a plumber to fit it? 

If so then sadly that weakens your position. If the plumber had supplied it then it would be his problem to make the whole job work but if not then you are somewhat caught in the middle.

Who advised you that this radiator was suitable for your room and existing pipework? Again, if the plumber said "order one of these than I will come and fit it" there is a strong argument that he is responsible for the whole job. 

hi there   .  we brought the radiator online.   we were not advised on which to buy.   we hired an independent local plumber to complete the works.

Sales of Goods Act doesnt apply to consumer purchases, it was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, some parts of it remain for business purchases. 

How long have you had the radiator? Under 30 days? Under 6 months? Over 6 months?

The inevitable challenge with this kind of transaction is that there is likely to be arguments over 1) if its faulty, 2) if it was fitted wrong 3) you bought the wrong thing. Having a single party doing the whole job greatly simplifies matters. 

Aylesbury_Duck

There's not much to go wrong with radiators.  If it is faulty it can surely only be a stuck valve or a manufacturing debris-blocked valve on either or both ends.

I strongly suspect the radiator is perfectly fine and that it's either that you've incorrectly guessed it will be compatible with your system and its current settings, or your plumber hasn't balanced the whole system to deal with the new radiator.

If you're reasonably DIY-savvy, closing all the lockshield valves on every other radiator in the house will force heat into the new radiator.  If it heats up evenly, then it's fine.  Then you can go about balancing the system so that heat is distributed evenly.

If that all sounds a bit scary (it needn't be, there are some helpful online tutorials and all you need is an adjustable spanner in most houses) then ask your plumber to come back and do it for you.

Edited to add:  I suppose it's possible that the system flush has loosened a load of gunk that's ended up in the new radiator, but I'd expect the plumber to have checked that.  I'd also expect him to have balanced the whole system, given that the new radiator is a different size to the originals.

born_again

Gingergirliew said:

born_again said:

Was it a triple rad before?

no but there were 2 doubles before

In the same place as the triple or in separate locations?

Jumblebumble

Gingergirliew said:

born_again said:

Was it a triple rad before?

no but there were 2 doubles before

It is not prudent to assume that the internal path sizes in a new radiator are going to be the same as the old ones
The retailer is likely to wash their hands of this unless you can prove the rad is faulty
Their technical advice may no more than a fob off attempt
Has the plumber followed the Ducks excellent advice about lockshields?
Has the plumber opined about the cause of the issue?
Has the radiator manufacturer tech support dept opined about the issue?

Undervalued

Gingergirliew said:

Undervalued said:

Gingergirliew said:

I am looking for some advice/guidance from members please.

We recently purchased a new radiator and had it installed by a professional engineer.  The radiator is not heating up properly - it gets hot at the top but not at the bottom.  The radiator company have advised various actions to resolve the issue - none have worked.  They state that the pipework may not be big enough for the 3 panel radiator - however we did have radiators there previously and these worked fine.

The engineer has been back a number of times and can find no way of resolving the issue.

We would like to return the radiator /get it replaced as we believe it is faulty and that there is nothing on the website stating that the radiator requires a certain size of pipework to operate effectively.

Can anyone advise on our rights in this instance to return/ask for an exchange please

I am not clear, did you buy the radiator directly from a plumbers' merchant then separately hire a plumber to fit it? 

If so then sadly that weakens your position. If the plumber had supplied it then it would be his problem to make the whole job work but if not then you are somewhat caught in the middle.

Who advised you that this radiator was suitable for your room and existing pipework? Again, if the plumber said "order one of these than I will come and fit it" there is a strong argument that he is responsible for the whole job. 

hi there   .  we brought the radiator online.   we were not advised on which to buy.   we hired an independent local plumber to complete the works.

Sadly that puts you in a weaker position.

It seems to me there are four possibilities, either......

The radiator is faulty

It is not faulty but does need a better water feed than your existing system can supply

Your supply should be adequate but plumber did something wrong

Or, some combination of the above!

Probably the only solution is to get an expert opinion from a suitably qualified person then pursue whoever was at fault to recoup the cost.

Gingergirliew

DullGreyGuy said:

Gingergirliew said:

Undervalued said:

Gingergirliew said:

I am looking for some advice/guidance from members please.

We recently purchased a new radiator and had it installed by a professional engineer.  The radiator is not heating up properly - it gets hot at the top but not at the bottom.  The radiator company have advised various actions to resolve the issue - none have worked.  They state that the pipework may not be big enough for the 3 panel radiator - however we did have radiators there previously and these worked fine.

The engineer has been back a number of times and can find no way of resolving the issue.

We would like to return the radiator /get it replaced as we believe it is faulty and that there is nothing on the website stating that the radiator requires a certain size of pipework to operate effectively.

Can anyone advise on our rights in this instance to return/ask for an exchange please

I am not clear, did you buy the radiator directly from a plumbers' merchant then separately hire a plumber to fit it? 

If so then sadly that weakens your position. If the plumber had supplied it then it would be his problem to make the whole job work but if not then you are somewhat caught in the middle.

Who advised you that this radiator was suitable for your room and existing pipework? Again, if the plumber said "order one of these than I will come and fit it" there is a strong argument that he is responsible for the whole job. 

hi there   .  we brought the radiator online.   we were not advised on which to buy.   we hired an independent local plumber to complete the works.

Sales of Goods Act doesnt apply to consumer purchases, it was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, some parts of it remain for business purchases. 

How long have you had the radiator? Under 30 days? Under 6 months? Over 6 months?

The inevitable challenge with this kind of transaction is that there is likely to be arguments over 1) if its faulty, 2) if it was fitted wrong 3) you bought the wrong thing. Having a single party doing the whole job greatly simplifies matters. 

we have had it under 6 months.  appreciate the arguments here.  we have had protracted discussions with the radiator company to demonstrate no issues and they have made the helpful fitter check everything many times.  they want a thermal image of it... but dont know how that will help as its not working

Gingergirliew

Aylesbury_Duck said:

There's not much to go wrong with radiators.  If it is faulty it can surely only be a stuck valve or a manufacturing debris-blocked valve on either or both ends.

I strongly suspect the radiator is perfectly fine and that it's either that you've incorrectly guessed it will be compatible with your system and its current settings, or your plumber hasn't balanced the whole system to deal with the new radiator.

If you're reasonably DIY-savvy, closing all the lockshield valves on every other radiator in the house will force heat into the new radiator.  If it heats up evenly, then it's fine.  Then you can go about balancing the system so that heat is distributed evenly.

If that all sounds a bit scary (it needn't be, there are some helpful online tutorials and all you need is an adjustable spanner in most houses) then ask your plumber to come back and do it for you.

Edited to add:  I suppose it's possible that the system flush has loosened a load of gunk that's ended up in the new radiator, but I'd expect the plumber to have checked that.  I'd also expect him to have balanced the whole system, given that the new radiator is a different size to the originals.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

There's not much to go wrong with radiators.  If it is faulty it can surely only be a stuck valve or a manufacturing debris-blocked valve on either or both ends.

I strongly suspect the radiator is perfectly fine and that it's either that you've incorrectly guessed it will be compatible with your system and its current settings, or your plumber hasn't balanced the whole system to deal with the new radiator.

If you're reasonably DIY-savvy, closing all the lockshield valves on every other radiator in the house will force heat into the new radiator.  If it heats up evenly, then it's fine.  Then you can go about balancing the system so that heat is distributed evenly.

If that all sounds a bit scary (it needn't be, there are some helpful online tutorials and all you need is an adjustable spanner in most houses) then ask your plumber to come back and do it for you.

born_again said:

Gingergirliew said:

born_again said:

Was it a triple rad before?

no but there were 2 doubles before

In the same place as the triple or in separate locations?

its the same pipework but slightly adjusted location...put it on the right hand side rather than left.

Gingergirliew

Aylesbury_Duck said:

There's not much to go wrong with radiators.  If it is faulty it can surely only be a stuck valve or a manufacturing debris-blocked valve on either or both ends.

I strongly suspect the radiator is perfectly fine and that it's either that you've incorrectly guessed it will be compatible with your system and its current settings, or your plumber hasn't balanced the whole system to deal with the new radiator.

If you're reasonably DIY-savvy, closing all the lockshield valves on every other radiator in the house will force heat into the new radiator.  If it heats up evenly, then it's fine.  Then you can go about balancing the system so that heat is distributed evenly.

If that all sounds a bit scary (it needn't be, there are some helpful online tutorials and all you need is an adjustable spanner in most houses) then ask your plumber to come back and do it for you.

Edited to add:  I suppose it's possible that the system flush has loosened a load of gunk that's ended up in the new radiator, but I'd expect the plumber to have checked that.  I'd also expect him to have balanced the whole system, given that the new radiator is a different size to the originals.

Ill check with the engineer, but think he did all of these things, he definately flushed the system, balanced the valves etc.

Gingergirliew

Jumblebumble said:

Gingergirliew said:

born_again said:

Was it a triple rad before?

no but there were 2 doubles before

It is not prudent to assume that the internal path sizes in a new radiator are going to be the same as the old ones
The retailer is likely to wash their hands of this unless you can prove the rad is faulty
Their technical advice may no more than a fob off attempt
Has the plumber followed the Ducks excellent advice about lockshields?
Has the plumber opined about the cause of the issue?
Has the radiator manufacturer tech support dept opined about the issue?

I will check about the lockshields... not sure if this was explored.  thanks both for the advice.  It does feel that the radiator company and fobbing us off and running us around in circles hence I was interested in understanding our rights to return the item.   

Nowhere on the website does it say it has to have certain size pipework to work effectively.  I wondered therefore what my rights were if any around this point should the issue not be resolved.