New Government Heat Pump Campaign - A Help or a Hinderance?

The_Green_Hornet

New Government Heat Pump Campaign: Impact on Homeowners

Do we think this new campaign will help the UK's roll out of heat pumps or will it be a hinderance?

Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Have they learnt anything from the Smart Meter rollout?

Personally I find the advert irritating which I'm sure isn't the response they are looking for.

NedS

Whilst I welcome any push to help roll out heat pumps, I think they are targeting the wrong market. Retrofitting properties which already have a gas or oil based central heating system is difficult and full of pitfalls which have the possibility to end up in bad installations where the resulting negative publicity is damaging. Simply taking a heat pump and installing it onto a pre-existing gas/oil heating system with non-optimum pipes (flow rates) and emitters (small radiators) is never going to result in an efficient system, which then either leaves the property cold or results in high bills. It's not rocket science to get it right, but it may involve redoing all the pipework and replacing all the radiators and many homeowners seem resistant to that disruption. It only takes 10% of bad installs to give the industry a dire reputation.

New builds and renovations, on the other hand, are far easier to get right as the system can be competently designed from the ground up. If they just want to achieve volume/numbers, it would be easier to target the 1.5m new homes the government wants to build, but they have backtracked on legislation forcing installation of heat pumps in new builds. To me, it seems like madness to still be installing gas boilers in new builds in 2025.

Veteransaver

Is there nothing yet about including air2air systems in the grants (ie air conditioning units), these are a lot more efficient than air2water systems, there was talk about including them?

michaels

Veteransaver said:

Is there nothing yet about including air2air systems in the grants (ie air conditioning units), these are a lot more efficient than air2water systems, there was talk about including them?

Are they a lot more efficient for space heating in terms of SCOP

If they result in people using AC that they would not otherwise then they will push up energy demand.

They don't heat hot water so if that moves from gas to direct electric then there is a big loss in efficiency there already?

QrizB

michaels said:

Veteransaver said:

Is there nothing yet about including air2air systems in the grants (ie air conditioning units), these are a lot more efficient than air2water systems, there was talk about including them?

Are they a lot more efficient for space heating in terms of SCOP

Yes, by about an extra "1". So if a typical ASHP has a COP of 3, a typical AAHP has a COP of 4.

michaels said:

They don't heat hot water so if that moves from gas to direct electric then there is a big loss in efficiency there already?

You can get ones that heat water too, or fit a separate heat pump water tank (which is a similar price to the sort of hot water tank you at recommended for an ASHP).
Example:

https://tesy.com/products/heat-pump-solutions/aquathermica

silverwhistle

I'm contemplating air2air and it's a shame there's no assistance at all. Down on the coast I probably would hardly use the air conditioning ability in summer: a little extra passive shading would be enough in my experience. For water I have a PV solar diverter to my tank and occasional use of a cheap overnight tariff if necessary, which is rare in the period March to October. Taking advantage of the cheap overnight rate would also be an aim for the HP to keep the house core temperature up. At a COP of 3.5 and ~7p for overnight there shouldn't be too much peak rate usage.

I could even have a slightly undersized unit as during any rare freezing cold event I have a wood burner in the lounge which is in any case often the only heat I have in the heating season. My gas for heating and hot water last year in a three bedroom house was 2800kWh and plans on improved glazing on the front North facing aspect of my house should help there too.

So even a little help would expedite my plans and develop the market in a segment where I am surely not alone.

benson1980

I thought the idea behind it was to dispel some myths. Granted retrofitting has challenges but seeing how ours was fitted it really wasn’t that difficult (1970s house with mediocre insulation) particularly with some of the controls coming out now which effectively self commission and set the WC curve automatically. 

Personally I think the biggest issues are:
- a lot of general misunderstanding amongst the public regarding energy usage peaks and troughs, hence comments regarding high cost of running compared to gas which might not be accurate.
- mistaken belief that they are only suitable for well insulated properties. It’s a simple case of just sizing the emitters to ensure max flow temps are below 50 (or ideally 45). A lot of older houses have at least some over sized radiators anyway hence why generally a third to half (or even less) might need upgrading rather than all.
- accreditation bodies that in the real world seem pretty toothless
- for some reason the general operating model of most ashp installers seem to be that the customer bears the entire cost up front. Most quotes we received stipulated this. Some even wanted us to front the BUS grant as well. Some used the BUS as the final payment which is still risky for the customer. Whilst I understand this to a degree, the general operating model of deposit then final payment when job complete seems a better balance, protects the customer, and provides motivation to the installer to make sure everything is running correctly.

michaels

I think a big problem is the same thing that happens with all these accreditation grant schemes - box ticking suppliers with very limited knowledge of what they are doing who not surprisingly often don't last that long in business before disappearing (and being reborn under a different name)

barker77

silverwhistle said:

I'm contemplating air2air and it's a shame there's no assistance at all. Down on the coast I probably would hardly use the air conditioning ability in summer: a little extra passive shading would be enough in my experience. For water I have a PV solar diverter to my tank and occasional use of a cheap overnight tariff if necessary, which is rare in the period March to October. Taking advantage of the cheap overnight rate would also be an aim for the HP to keep the house core temperature up. At a COP of 3.5 and ~7p for overnight there shouldn't be too much peak rate usage.

I could even have a slightly undersized unit as during any rare freezing cold event I have a wood burner in the lounge which is in any case often the only heat I have in the heating season. My gas for heating and hot water last year in a three bedroom house was 2800kWh and plans on improved glazing on the front North facing aspect of my house should help there too.

So even a little help would expedite my plans and develop the market in a segment where I am surely not alone.

Someone mentioned air to air might be in grant soon have you seen anything about it ? @s@silverwhistle would you have a normal electric hot water tank? Also do you know how prices compare as wondering now for my bungalow if this would be a much better price even without the gov grant ? As I think I’d only need 6 units (cover hallways from other rooms) and therefore might not be more than 5/6k all in ? Assuming room units are £400ish , outside unit and tank inside ?

silverwhistle

No news I've heard, just wishful thinking from some. Yes, I have a hot water tank, and as I mentioned in my earlier post I use surplus solar PV power which is done automatically using the immersion heater. In weather such as we are having now my tank is fully heated in the morning and I'm just about to some baking to use up what I'm producing.

I don't initially plan to heat my upstairs bedrooms, just lounge and dining room which would help the adjacent kitchen. But it's all a bit theoretical at the moment as I'm looking towards an extension which changes everything.

Would you need all the rooms covered? If only occasional usage (guest room, box room etc.) you might be able to get by with occasional usage of a cheap direct air heater.

brewerdave

NedS said:

Whilst I welcome any push to help roll out heat pumps, I think they are targeting the wrong market. Retrofitting properties which already have a gas or oil based central heating system is difficult and full of pitfalls which have the possibility to end up in bad installations where the resulting negative publicity is damaging. Simply taking a heat pump and installing it onto a pre-existing gas/oil heating system with non-optimum pipes (flow rates) and emitters (small radiators) is never going to result in an efficient system, which then either leaves the property cold or results in high bills. It's not rocket science to get it right, but it may involve redoing all the pipework and replacing all the radiators and many homeowners seem resistant to that disruption. It only takes 10% of bad installs to give the industry a dire reputation.

New builds and renovations, on the other hand, are far easier to get right as the system can be competently designed from the ground up. If they just want to achieve volume/numbers, it would be easier to target the 1.5m new homes the government wants to build, but they have backtracked on legislation forcing installation of heat pumps in new builds. To me, it seems like madness to still be installing gas boilers in new builds in 2025.

This - I had an estimate a couple of years ago, of ~£21k for heat pump, controls ,uprated rads and pipework (in some rooms only!), larger hot water tank etc BUT on top of that ,I would have had to pay to put the house right after the works ie redecorate etc.
I'm in my 70s so absolutely no sensible payback - planning for a new gas boiler now - probably in the next two years.