Proposed PIP Changes

HillStreetBlues

https://gcnchambers.co.uk/legal-challenges-or-a-labour-rebellion-tom-royston-dissects-governments-proposed-cuts-to-disability-benefits/

there is no clear or obvious route to legally challenge the flagship elements of the policy.

Auti

Just my thought - my reasons for PIP don’t suddenly vanish when I have my 66 birthday - still have the same costs, same disabilities (not mobility related by infirmity), same level of need. As working my hours were limited due to disability so my earnings were small which means work pension is small -couple of hundred a month and PIP helps to cover costs due to smaller income, help needed. On 66 birthday it is still the same - still same income though different source - still help needed (not due to infirmity of age) so still need PIP.

If it is removed as pensioner then my life will be very hard and very isolated - AA is from what I see for physical infirmity not for the help in keeping safe, understanding operating systems. PIP understands where I need support and help - I don’t think AA does.

this is just how I perceive it

CosmoChic

@Auti

It's true your costs don't reduce.

It's also true those who were not on PIP prior to their 66/67th birthday will receive only AA, no matter the mobility difficulties they have. 

Also, it's entirely possible their difficulties exceed those who are already on PIP, particularly in relation to mobility or memory issues.   AA does cover conditions like Alzheimer's as well as physical infirmities, meaning there are issues of being kept safe etc.

In addition, the main argument used for PIP is it is not an alternative/additional income.  It's purpose is to meet care/support needs i.e. it should reflect the additional cost the claimant has due to their disability.

I think that's partly why there are all these surveys on the go attempting at the moment.  I believe they are attempting to have those who use PIP as income top-up to confirm that's what they're doing, so that they can hand out vouchers instead of cash for direct disability-related needs.

I spend more than my PIP on my needs, so they can see the receipts any time they wish.  My fear is they will limit my choice in terms of therapists etc. via their voucher scheme, and also generate massive waiting lists for the "approved" therapists. 

Spoonie_Turtle

CosmoChic said:

I think that's partly why there are all these surveys on the go attempting at the moment.  I believe they are attempting to have those who use PIP as income top-up to confirm that's what they're doing, so that they can hand out vouchers instead of cash for direct disability-related needs.

Straying off the original topic but there is a viewpoint that those surveys should not be filled in, or at most sent back with letters of opposition - whatever we use our PIP for, we lose, as they can spin it as:
If we use it on clearly medical essentials, they can turn round and say those should be covered by the NHS / social services / etc. and they'll increase funding there with the savings from benefit cuts, and therefore we don't need PIP for any of that. 
If we use it for hobbies to help our mental health or attending events or any sort of social life to inject a little bit of joy into our lives, well those aren't medical essentials so we're just 'wasting' PIP and clearly don't need it. 
If we use it for daily expenditure, well we will have more income when we're forced to work* so we won't need PIP.

*because of course the only people who claim PIP are those who choose not to work(!)


^ I'm not advocating one way or another, just giving a viewpoint to consider that people might not think of before deciding to complete the survey.  For balance, there are also people who believe that when they see what we use our PIP for, the government will see how important it is and not go through with the cuts.

Auti

Thank you @CosmoChic. I can see where you are coming from. It would be harder for me to show receipts - how would they deal with sensory issues impacting food, clothes, lights etc. I dont have enough income to cover the extra costs I incur so PIP helps but how would you show that? Cooking is a nightmare, safety is interesting, how do you show costs of that? Costs of heating, costs of failed attempts to manage something, costs of obsession, cost of making sure there are safe spaces, few people etc.

PIP understands, the piece they wrote in the award showed they understood and the lady who did home visit was kind and helped me as i got lost, (though I am scared the changes will not understand) vouchers would not work for me as the extra costs are bound up in living costs. I would have nothing to show a dedicated receipt for - how would I show the many times I have had to try the route/research the place/get to the place and hear the noise/lights etc so that I might be able to cope when I actually do the activity and appear on the surface ‘normal’ (let alone the effect it has afterwards as my brain is fried).  How would I show this for vouchers? (This is also for shops and if they change aisles or have events it becomes a new place to learn - there are very few shops I go in and the ones I do there are workers who know me and will help me if I start to struggle).

PIP helps me so much by adding the extra money to the amount ‘normal’ people would spend and to the ‘everyday’ costs (food etc). I can’t show therapies, physical expenditure such as grab rails, wheelchair etc. I could take pictures of burns, cuts, spoilt food/utensils but that would be meaningless and it is just part of my life which, writing this down, seems so different to others in thinking and abilities.

Sorry, no disrespect meant to anyone - I don’t think AA is meant for me PIP understands.

CosmoChic

@Spoonie_Turtle I'm firmly in the do not complete the survey group. 

You're correct, whatever the outcome of the survey, they will spin it either way to suit themselves. 

From a purely selfish point of view, finding a specialised therapist who I trust completely has taken a long, long, time. 

The idea of her no longer being available to me, and being put on a waiting list for a random, non-specialist therapist, is something I can't begin to contemplate.

@Auti I hear you, none of us want to lose what we have. 

I do understand what you're saying about showing/ proving the costs to you of your conditions. 

However, that was not the point I was attempting to make. 

The point was the system is unfair to those who, say, develop cognitive issues past retirement age as they will not be able to benefit from PIP allowances, and definitely not the mobility element - although, ironically enough, their condition will most likely qualify them for a Blue Badge.  Of course, they will be the same as you i.e. have great difficulty in showing/proving the costs of their condition should that be the route the government choose for PIP/AA.

Paspatur

CosmoChic said:

I know this won't be a popular view, but I've always wondered why PIP isn't a working age only benefit

This confuses me. Not in the case of people whose income does not change but in the case of people on an early retirement due to ill health pension plus PIP (actually maybe now ADP Scotland) and they then get State Pension on top at 66. Personal experience and the person involved is also confused and waiting for someone to say it is wrong

born_again

To take a different tack. 
PIP is a gateway to carers allowance.

Why is it that Carers allowance disappears at retirement age?
If someone has a partner younger than them & they retire they lose the allowance, yet still provide exactly the same level of care.

CosmoChic

Paspatur said:

CosmoChic said:

I know this won't be a popular view, but I've always wondered why PIP isn't a working age only benefit

This confuses me. Not in the case of people whose income does not change but in the case of people on an early retirement due to ill health pension plus PIP (actually maybe now ADP Scotland) and they then get State Pension on top at 66. Personal experience and the person involved is also confused and waiting for someone to say it is wrong

I'll be honest, and say I'll be in the same position when I'm 67, with zero housing costs.  Of course, that's assuming ADP is not reviewed and removed prior to then.  Technically my review date is light-touch 2030, when I'll be 68.

I'm in a serious dilemma about it.  

I guess a decision will have to be made, either by DWP or me.

CosmoChic

born_again said:

To take a different tack. 
PIP is a gateway to carers allowance.

Why is it that Carers allowance disappears at retirement age?
If someone has a partner younger than them & they retire they lose the allowance, yet still provide exactly the same level of care.

Indeed, another inequity.  I truly believe the entire age-related issue in regards to PIP/DLA/ADP is being ignored/overlooked, probably deliberately.

The difference between those awarded for their disabilities prior to state retirement age with a carer, and those acknowledged as having difficulties after state retirement age, also with a carer, is financially stark:

PIP max £1175pm approx.
AA max £480pm approx.