Proposed PIP Changes

HillStreetBlues

Had a quick count up, if the new rules came into effect then a person could have over 20 points on the Daily Living but wouldn't be classed as disabled enough to get an award.

Spoonie_Turtle

HillStreetBlues said:

Had a quick count up, if the new rules came into effect then a person could have over 20 points on the Daily Living but wouldn't be classed as disabled enough to get an award.

They could but I find it extremely difficult to think of any condition that would make someone score like that (faulty assessments notwithstanding).

Far more concerning is the people who would score 8/10/12 due to primarily pain and/or fatigue but possibly not qualify.  Legislation already deems people who currently qualify for the standard award to be "severely disabled" and now they're saying that's not enough.  Particularly given the prevalence of Long Covid (especially the ME/CFS subtype) and other debilitating conditions triggered/exacerbated by covid which is still running rampant - POTS/other dysautonomia, EDS, MCAS, etc. - this is … terrifying.

All the guff in the Green Paper about numbers of claims rising, and they're just completely ignoring the fact it's because more people are ill and disabled, funnily enough because we're now five years into a mass disabling event alongside other factors like a struggling NHS and high thresholds for any financial support meaning people make themselves more ill by pushing through to work and survive until their body and/or mind break down and they can't any more, it's not a case of people just deciding to claim.

As said in another comment, I am livid.  Not at all surprised (well, slightly surprised it's not even worse than it already is, to be honest), just angry.

born_again

Spoonie_Turtle said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Had a quick count up, if the new rules came into effect then a person could have over 20 points on the Daily Living but wouldn't be classed as disabled enough to get an award.

They could but I find it extremely difficult to think of any condition that would make someone score like that (faulty assessments notwithstanding).

I agree that it is extreme, but many who would have got std daily (8 points), will be get nothing. It's all well & good saying they can still get mobility. But Daily is £72.65 (std) & mobility is £28.70 (std) is a massive difference. 

In reality they could have just gone for one daily living rate with 12 points. 🤷‍♀️

Will be interesting to see if Mrs managed a 4pt score on her enhanced result when it arrives.

Muttleythefrog

Yes... I think it's primarily to target lower level mental illness where claimants can score lowly across many DL activities... but I can imagine others including with fatigue like symptoms also caught up in that. I suspected the government would take an easy straightforward path to making qualification harder but I figured most likely by changing the points requirements for standard and/or enhanced awards. It will encourage claimants to fight for a 4 point or more DL descriptor... and the fact that health related elements of ESA/UC will be determined eventually by the PIP DL award there will be further incentive to fight for good PIP award. Advice on the board including given the last government's plan and consultation have remained sound given the new proposals under this government.

I have now read the whole of the Green paper... I have to say.. I think there has been a slight mismatch in focus and impact regarding media take.. the changes going forward to health component (UC) particularly for new claims post April 2026 are quite severe.

atlantis187

So let me get my head around this -
before u needed 8 points across all the daily living activities and now you only need 4 points in 1 activity to get an award.

Isn't this seen as a win

Beeblebr0x

atlantis187 said:

So let me get my head around this -
before u needed 8 points across all the daily living activities and now you only need 4 points in 1 activity to get an award.

Isn't this seen as a win

Not necessarily:

"Scoring a four is a high bar. Needing prompting to prepare food, help with showering or washing and dressing the lower body, and needing help to engage with others are all measures that score below a four."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/18/key-changes-uk-benefits-cuts-disability-pip-labour

Spoonie_Turtle

atlantis187 said:

So let me get my head around this -
before u needed 8 points across all the daily living activities and now you only need 4 points in 1 activity to get an award.

Isn't this seen as a win

No.  You have to still score 8 points for an award, but at least 4 of those have to come from one activity.  The wording in the gov.uk info is:

"We will introduce a new, additional eligibility requirement so that a minimum of 4 points must be scored on one PIP daily living activity to receive the daily living element of the benefit. This means that people who only score the lowest points on each of the PIP daily living activities will lose their entitlement in future."

Spoonie_Turtle

born_again said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Had a quick count up, if the new rules came into effect then a person could have over 20 points on the Daily Living but wouldn't be classed as disabled enough to get an award.

They could but I find it extremely difficult to think of any condition that would make someone score like that (faulty assessments notwithstanding).

I agree that it is extreme, but many who would have got std daily (8 points), will be get nothing. It's all well & good saying they can still get mobility. But Daily is £72.65 (std) & mobility is £28.70 (std) is a massive difference. 

I was just saying the specific hypothesised scenario in the OP, scoring 20 made up of all 2point descriptors across the ten activities, would be extremely unusual and I can't think of any condition that would manifestat that way.

It's not going to be extreme or unusual for potentially hundreds of thousands of people to lose their standard rate awards, apart from the consequences of taking away their lifeline.  Extreme distress will not be an exaggeration.

born_again

Spoonie_Turtle said:

It's not going to be extreme or unusual for potentially hundreds of thousands of people to lose their standard rate awards, apart from the consequences of taking away their lifeline.  Extreme distress will not be an exaggeration.

Totally agree.
To me Daily living is the one area the PIP was designed for. 
Saying you can still get mobility, means nothing to many. Who would only be on std level.

Cyclamen

Its a strange situation. A loved one receives enhanced daily living PIP. But his maximum score in one area is 3 points. So that would mean he would lose PIP daily living completely with the the new proposals. This was all awarded following an appeal court case with judges and disability experts from DWP etc. It really isnt easy to get PIP. 

I'm not convinced the people making the decisions really understand about the variety of disabilities and just how hard it is to become eligible.

I am a bit scared by all this.  I am seeing the posts within the disabled community where people are genuinely scared and wondering how they can carry on with a reasonable quality of life.

I dont really understand the ESA proposed changes.  I have been in the support group for 15 years. I was moved to UC last year and am a bit muddled anyway.  I think i am still on contributions based ESA. The new proposals  reads as if ESA is being scrapped but then mentions Incapacity benefit (which i thought was a phased out legacy benefit) being added for the most severe.

I know things will become clearer in time but its really worrying.  

Spoonie_Turtle

Cyclamen said:

Its a strange situation. A loved one receives enhanced daily living PIP. But his maximum score in one area is 3 points. So that would mean he would lose PIP daily living completely with the the new proposals. This was all awarded following an appeal court case with judges and disability experts from DWP etc. It really isnt easy to get PIP. 

…

I dont really understand the ESA proposed changes.  I have been in the support group for 15 years. I was moved to UC last year and am a bit muddled anyway.  I think i am still on contributions based ESA. The new proposals  reads as if ESA is being scrapped but then mentions Incapacity benefit (which i thought was a phased out legacy benefit) being added for the most severe.

I know things will become clearer in time but its really worrying.  

Re: the ESA ending, for you it wouldn't make much difference because it's deducted in full from UC anyway.  The people who don't qualify for means-tested benefits will be the ones left without an income-replacement benefit (which is already the case for people who don't qualify for UC and don't have the NI record to be able to claim ESA since they stopped allowing new claims for income-related ESA).

My enhanced PIP was also a mix of 1, 2s and 3, although that was following an MR rather than tribunal.  I didn't have to fight further because there was no point, but if I had that same outcome in the future then obviously I would have to fight for the 4 points, probably in preparing a meal.  (It's ridiculous that needing a wet room only scores 3 points for washing and bathing.)  PIP is already a high threshold, excluding hundreds of thousands of genuinely disabled people.  This extra barrier … well, I can only repeat what I said in my original comment.  Livid.