Cheapest Way to Translate a French Inheritance Deed (Acte de Notoriété) for Probate Application?

MonsieurT

Hello. I'm trying to mitigate costs after paying solicitor's fees plus the first instalment of an onerous IHT bill.

In re section 6 of the PA1P soon to be sent off to HMCTS, I have to provide a copy of a French Acte de Notoriété (deed of heirship) as we are inheriting my French mother's UK estate. (She was a French domicile and we are UK domiciles.)

I also have to provide an "official translation" of the above deed, which is about 2500 words long over 7 pages. Looking at various translation services found online, it seems this is going to cost me £300-400. My means are limited as a carer and I am already well out of pocket as mentioned above. Not only HMGov wants a nice chunk of our inheritance but they also want us to pay for the translation of any foreign documents involved in the process... I mean, they have free translation services at DHSS in multiple languages, right?

Rant aside, what is the cheapest possible way to get a (French) legal document "officially" translated for HMCTS' purposes? As a fluent French speaker, can I translate it myself and get it proofread and certified by an ATC-registered company? If not, is there some other clever tactic to avoid paying a fee I can ill-afford?

Thanks

Emmia

MonsieurT said:

Hello. I'm trying to mitigate costs after paying solicitor's fees plus the first instalment of an onerous IHT bill.

In re section 6 of the PA1P soon to be sent off to HMCTS, I have to provide a copy of a French Acte de Notoriété (deed of heirship) as we are inheriting my French mother's UK estate. (She was a French domicile and we are UK domiciles.)

I also have to provide an "official translation" of the above deed, which is about 2500 words long over 7 pages. Looking at various translation services found online, it seems this is going to cost me £300-400. My means are limited as a carer and I am already well out of pocket as mentioned above. Not only HMGov wants a nice chunk of our inheritance but they also want us to pay for the translation of any foreign documents involved in the process... I mean, they have free translation services at DHSS in multiple languages, right?

Rant aside, what is the cheapest possible way to get a (French) legal document "officially" translated for HMCTS' purposes? As a fluent French speaker, can I translate it myself and get it proofread and certified by an ATC-registered company? If not, is there some other clever tactic to avoid paying a fee I can ill-afford?

Thanks

I think you'll find that govt. depts tend to hire translation services in, they're not "in house".

It's also normal that people need to pay to have documents translated for official purposes - your inheritance is presumably worth more than the cost of translation?

Tucosalamanca

Why are you paying? Probate application costs are covered by the estate.

If you're suggesting that the state should pay for translation, so that you can receive a larger inheritance, I don't think you'll find much support.

As you've said, you have an onerous IHT bill, which suggests that the estate has adequate funds to cover administration costs.

MonsieurT

Emmia said:

I think you'll find that govt. depts tend to hire translation services in, they're not "in house".

It's also normal that people need to pay to have documents translated for official purposes - your inheritance is presumably worth more than the cost of translation?

Tucosalamanca said:

Why are you paying? Probate application costs are covered by the estate.

If you're suggesting that the state should pay for translation, so that you can receive a larger inheritance, I don't think you'll find much support.

As you've said, you have an onerous IHT bill, which suggests that the estate has adequate funds to cover administration costs.

It was a semi-serious rant. Our inheritance is a share of the home we already inhabit (since the mid-70's); we are in that most unbeloved of categories (as demonstrated in this thread apparently), i.e. property-rich - since a standard mid-terrace can now be classed as a rich man's dwelling - and cash poor. Did I mention I was a carer?

I don't know about you but regardless of economic standing, I don't believe it is morally defensible to tax the dead. That goes double when it results in forcing heirs to consider having to sell their home to pay said tax.

And if these governments, in the process of fleecing Probate applicants, can't at least offer translation (in-house or subsidised) for a nominal fee, yah boo sucks to that.

Pity Sajid Javed was axed before he had the chance to axe IHT...

Emmia

MonsieurT said:

Emmia said:

I think you'll find that govt. depts tend to hire translation services in, they're not "in house".

It's also normal that people need to pay to have documents translated for official purposes - your inheritance is presumably worth more than the cost of translation?

Tucosalamanca said:

Why are you paying? Probate application costs are covered by the estate.

If you're suggesting that the state should pay for translation, so that you can receive a larger inheritance, I don't think you'll find much support.

As you've said, you have an onerous IHT bill, which suggests that the estate has adequate funds to cover administration costs.

It was a semi-serious rant. Our inheritance is a share of the home we already inhabit (since the mid-70's); we are in that most unbeloved of categories (as demonstrated in this thread apparently), i.e. property-rich - since a standard mid-terrace can now be classed as a rich man's dwelling - and cash poor. Did I mention I was a carer?

I don't know about you but regardless of economic standing, I don't believe it is morally defensible to tax the dead. That goes double when it results in forcing heirs to consider having to sell their home to pay said tax.

And if these governments, in the process of fleecing Probate applicants, can't at least offer translation (in-house or subsidised) for a nominal fee, yah boo sucks to that.

Pity Sajid Javed was axed before he had the chance to axe IHT... (No, I'm not a Tory, I don't care much for party politics.)

I think it's entirely reasonable to tax the dead, it's the one time you really don't need money anymore.

I appreciate in your situation that it's tricky though with the ownership of the house being less than ideal.

Tucosalamanca

I think that the 1% should be taxed far more. IHT thresholds (and others) have been frozen for a number of years and that's something that needs looking at.

I've previously administered an estate where there was a large liability after the deceased died unexpectedly and before they had made optimal arrangements. I understand the implications and costs.
But fundamentally, I have no problem with IHT.

Ultimately, if you're benefitting from an estate which is large enough to attract tax, you're one of the fortunate ones.

From HMRC 

• in the tax year 2021 to 2022, 4.39% of UK deaths resulted in an Inheritance Tax (IHT) charge, increasing by 0.66 percentage points since the tax year 2020 to 2021. This means that IHT is payable on fewer than 1 in 20 estates, as it has done since 2007 to 2008, and broadly since statistics were first produced. 

MonsieurT

Tax the dead, tax the 1%, eat the rich, yada-yada... Clearly we do not share the same moral perspective and that's fine.

This was not meant to be a thread on the merits (or not) of taxation, it was a plea for help in finding an affordable translator! This is not Reddit.

Tucosalamanca

MonsieurT said:

Tax the dead, tax the 1%, eat the rich, yada-yada... Clearly we do not share the same moral perspective and that's fine.

This was not meant to be a thread on the merits (or not) of taxation, it was a plea for help in finding an affordable translator! This is not Reddit.

If you didn't want to talk about taxation, why mention it the original post?

The estate is over £500,000, you have an IHT bill of £25k that you're clearly unhappy about and are baulking at a £300-400 translation cost.
All the while saying how hard done by you are. Many people will not have much sympathy for your situation.

The problem is poor inheritance planning by the family, not taxation.

DullGreyGuy

MonsieurT said:

I mean, they have free translation services at DHSS in multiple languages, right?

Why do you believe they are free? The people are volunteers? Or do you mean "free" as in actually not free at all but that the governmental department pays the translator rather than the user and therefore its our taxes paying for it. 

MonsieurT said:

As a fluent French speaker, can I translate it myself and get it proofread and certified by an ATC-registered company? If not, is there some other clever tactic to avoid paying a fee I can ill-afford?

Potentially, you'd need to speak to companies to see if it's an option. Certainly some these days use an AI translation initially and then a proofreader to correct it for a lower cost option so potentially the price you're seeing is already basically what you are suggesting. 

jimbo6977

You will need an official translation by a suitably qualified translator. They're not "cheap" because they are qualified professionals, but their fee scales vary according to the complexity of the document you need to translate. You're paying about £1 per line for 7 tightly typed pages at £350. I don't think that's in any way expensive for a technical translation with important consequences.

No one sensible will sign off your translation, nor mine and I'm also bilingual (but not a translator).  

Arguments about the economic effects of licencing, and about the fact that some people are able to avail of taxpayer-funded translators free of charge, are for another day. 

MonsieurT

Tucosalamanca said:

[Righteous indignation goes here]

Again, a helpful response. Thank you kindly for that.