Dilemma - dream job in jeopardy due to finances

kimwp

What is about being a commercial pilot that makes it your dream job?

sky_rat

kimwp said:

What is about being a commercial pilot that makes it your dream job?

I've always loved flying, the experience, the views, the aircraft, being able to fly around the world, weather phenomimes etc.  I have flown several light aircraft, one was a trial flight and another with someone I know who has their PPL and shares in an aircraft.  I have also been in one of the simulators used for training.   I have an engineering degree and have worked in aerospace for the last 5 years, though its with toy drones which does not interest me.  I understand the basic theory of aircraft, yet it still amazes how these huge machines appear to glide effortlessly through the sky and fly at high speeds and alititudes.  As a passenger I always want the window seat and spend a lot of time looking at the views and the workings of the aircraft.  I'm like an excited child and the flying part of any holiday abroad is something I really enjoy.  I've seen the cockpit many times and spoken to many pilots.  The cockpit fascinates me with all the switches and displays.  I know pilots who fly commercial and private from my skydiving hobby over the last 20 years.  I did consider working for an aerospace company like BAE, but having spoken to other engineers I soon realised that you would spend many years working on just a small part because safety is critical.  I also considered working as an aircraft maintenance engineer and know someone who does this as a career.  But they said you would start at the bottom doing the tasks no one wants to do such as maintaining the onboard toilets and this career is mainly a nightshift role to get the aircraft ready for the flights in the daytime.

Nothanks

As other posters have said, it doesn’t seem like a dilemma at this point, more that your challenges appear insurmountable. BUT. 

Never give up hope, pursue it as hard as you can but please have a plan B. There is a middle ground between “Job I hate” and “dream job”. 

Are there other jobs on a plane you could do? Technicians, cabin crew…other stuff? 

sky_rat

Savvy_Sue said:

sky_rat said:

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

That seems very binary ... and it's not even as if you have an actual choice at the moment: until you're selected for this training (which you can't afford to do anyway), you have no other option than to stay in a job you hate? which is in danger of disappearing anyway? 

I thought these points were well made:

Mands said:

There's quite a lot of numbers in your post so let's put them into a timeline.

• You are 49. The course (which hasn't started yet) takes two years. You'll be 51, at best, when it finishes
• You will have zero income during those two years so will need to live off savings
• When you qualify your starting salary will be 58% of your current income
• But you'll need to start paying back the finance at, say 20k a year
• You will be 57 when the finance is due to be paid off
• Commercial pilots can not fly beyond 65

Do you think that is manageable?

Now, we may have legislation against age discrimination in the UK, but that doesn't mean it's not alive and well. Even if no-one asks for your date of birth, it's likely there are dates somewhere in the application form, and someone's going to be working out how old you are - I don't know about you, but when someone says they graduated in the same decade as me, I don't need a calculator to work out roughly how old they are. 

By all means carry on putting your all into this application if you've seen any way of making it work, but can't you at least put as much effort into a Plan B: finding another career you could be passionate about? Or if not a career, a hobby, an enthusiasm, a passion which gives purpose to life? 

Finding an alternative career has been the bane of my life, I've tried to think of things but there isn't anything.  Typical jobs such as finance, business, healthcare, retail, law etc just don't appeal to me.  Nothing excites or interests me like being a pilot.  I did look into a career in skydiving, but its very difficult to make a living from it espeically in the UK due to the awful weather (even in summer!).  And I was warned against turning your hobby into a career, as theres the risk of it being ruined.  When I look for work in my current career (engineering) I dont have the interest or motivation.  So when I see job adverts or I am contacted by recruiters (who are just sales people and usually for a job thats unsuitable) I just dont have the interest and quickly give up looking, so end up just staying where I am.  I try not to stay in the same job for longer than 5 or 6 years and Im at that stage now.  In fact I have an interview tomorrow, but I will have to pretend I am interested.

Marcon

sky_rat said:

Savvy_Sue said:

sky_rat said:

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

That seems very binary ... and it's not even as if you have an actual choice at the moment: until you're selected for this training (which you can't afford to do anyway), you have no other option than to stay in a job you hate? which is in danger of disappearing anyway? 

I thought these points were well made:

Mands said:

There's quite a lot of numbers in your post so let's put them into a timeline.

• You are 49. The course (which hasn't started yet) takes two years. You'll be 51, at best, when it finishes
• You will have zero income during those two years so will need to live off savings
• When you qualify your starting salary will be 58% of your current income
• But you'll need to start paying back the finance at, say 20k a year
• You will be 57 when the finance is due to be paid off
• Commercial pilots can not fly beyond 65

Do you think that is manageable?

Now, we may have legislation against age discrimination in the UK, but that doesn't mean it's not alive and well. Even if no-one asks for your date of birth, it's likely there are dates somewhere in the application form, and someone's going to be working out how old you are - I don't know about you, but when someone says they graduated in the same decade as me, I don't need a calculator to work out roughly how old they are. 

By all means carry on putting your all into this application if you've seen any way of making it work, but can't you at least put as much effort into a Plan B: finding another career you could be passionate about? Or if not a career, a hobby, an enthusiasm, a passion which gives purpose to life? 

Finding an alternative career has been the bane of my life, I've tried to think of things but there isn't anything.  Typical jobs such as finance, business, healthcare, retail, law etc just don't appeal to me.  Nothing excites or interests me like being a pilot.  I did look into a career in skydiving, but it's very difficult to make a living from it espeically in the UK due to the awful weather (even in summer!).  And I was warned against turning your hobby into a career, as theres the risk of it being ruined.  When I look for work in my current career (engineering) I dont have the interest or motivation.  So when I see job adverts or I am contacted by recruiters (who are just sales people and usually for a job thats unsuitable) I just dont have the interest and quickly give up looking, so end up just staying where I am.  I try not to stay in the same job for longer than 5 or 6 years and Im at that stage now.  In fact I have an interview tomorrow, but I will have to pretend I am interested.

Surely you mean that nothing excites or interests you like the idea of being a pilot? People with a real, burning ambition to do something tend to find a way to make it happen, whatever sacrifices that entails, rather than making excuses for why it didn't happen.

Quoting from your first post:

I have applied for sponsorship training twice in the past but the selection process is very tough and the competition is very fierce, so I was not successful.  Typical figures are 20,000 applicants and only 200 of those are selected.  Until recently the airline industry drasticaly reduced the sponsorship programs.

I have applied again and making more progress this time, its still early days and I'm waiting to hear if I have progressed on to the next phase.

Howver, I keep asking myself whether I should continue and once again it's all down to finances.  

Your thread is titled 'Dilemma - dream job in jeopardy due to finances'. The unhappy reality is that in 20 years you've done nothing to actually make it happen, nor do you seem to have come anywhere near being offered a place on any sort of pilot training scheme. To say that 'once again it's all down to finances' isn't true; that fact that you weren't successful had nothing to do with finances and everything to do with the fact that competition is fierce and you weren't in the top 1%. If you do get to the next phase, and are asked how you are going to fund yourself for the next two years, what compelling answer are you going to be able to give?

From everything you've said, your 'dream job' is actually just a 'dream' and probably given your age etc will always remain so - but surely there must be something which stirs your interest enough to improve your working life? It's horrid to dash someone's hopes as roundly as my replies (and others) on this thread have done without some positive suggestions, but while you remain so focussed on something which on your own admission is unattainable, it's hard to do otherwise.

But it really would be good if you could find something...

kimwp

sky_rat said:

kimwp said:

What is about being a commercial pilot that makes it your dream job?

I've always loved flying, the experience, the views, the aircraft, being able to fly around the world, weather phenomimes etc.  I have flown several light aircraft, one was a trial flight and another with someone I know who has their PPL and shares in an aircraft.  I have also been in one of the simulators used for training.   I have an engineering degree and have worked in aerospace for the last 5 years, though its with toy drones which does not interest me.  I understand the basic theory of aircraft, yet it still amazes how these huge machines appear to glide effortlessly through the sky and fly at high speeds and alititudes.  As a passenger I always want the window seat and spend a lot of time looking at the views and the workings of the aircraft.  I'm like an excited child and the flying part of any holiday abroad is something I really enjoy.  I've seen the cockpit many times and spoken to many pilots.  The cockpit fascinates me with all the switches and displays.  I know pilots who fly commercial and private from my skydiving hobby over the last 20 years.  I did consider working for an aerospace company like BAE, but having spoken to other engineers I soon realised that you would spend many years working on just a small part because safety is critical.  I also considered working as an aircraft maintenance engineer and know someone who does this as a career.  But they said you would start at the bottom doing the tasks no one wants to do such as maintaining the onboard toilets and this career is mainly a nightshift role to get the aircraft ready for the flights in the daytime.

Thank you for sharing and your description sounds very appealing, but honestly, it sounds like you are fantasising the job a little and also unwilling to compromise to achieve some of the things about being a pilot that appeal to you. 

Have you considered looking for a job that will give you some exposure, eg that job at BAE and adjusting your finances to afford to fly privately?

sky_rat

Marcon said:

sky_rat said:

Savvy_Sue said:

sky_rat said:

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

That seems very binary ... and it's not even as if you have an actual choice at the moment: until you're selected for this training (which you can't afford to do anyway), you have no other option than to stay in a job you hate? which is in danger of disappearing anyway? 

I thought these points were well made:

Mands said:

There's quite a lot of numbers in your post so let's put them into a timeline.

• You are 49. The course (which hasn't started yet) takes two years. You'll be 51, at best, when it finishes
• You will have zero income during those two years so will need to live off savings
• When you qualify your starting salary will be 58% of your current income
• But you'll need to start paying back the finance at, say 20k a year
• You will be 57 when the finance is due to be paid off
• Commercial pilots can not fly beyond 65

Do you think that is manageable?

Now, we may have legislation against age discrimination in the UK, but that doesn't mean it's not alive and well. Even if no-one asks for your date of birth, it's likely there are dates somewhere in the application form, and someone's going to be working out how old you are - I don't know about you, but when someone says they graduated in the same decade as me, I don't need a calculator to work out roughly how old they are. 

By all means carry on putting your all into this application if you've seen any way of making it work, but can't you at least put as much effort into a Plan B: finding another career you could be passionate about? Or if not a career, a hobby, an enthusiasm, a passion which gives purpose to life? 

Finding an alternative career has been the bane of my life, I've tried to think of things but there isn't anything.  Typical jobs such as finance, business, healthcare, retail, law etc just don't appeal to me.  Nothing excites or interests me like being a pilot.  I did look into a career in skydiving, but it's very difficult to make a living from it espeically in the UK due to the awful weather (even in summer!).  And I was warned against turning your hobby into a career, as theres the risk of it being ruined.  When I look for work in my current career (engineering) I dont have the interest or motivation.  So when I see job adverts or I am contacted by recruiters (who are just sales people and usually for a job thats unsuitable) I just dont have the interest and quickly give up looking, so end up just staying where I am.  I try not to stay in the same job for longer than 5 or 6 years and Im at that stage now.  In fact I have an interview tomorrow, but I will have to pretend I am interested.

Surely you mean that nothing excites or interests you like the idea of being a pilot? People with a real, burning ambition to do something tend to find a way to make it happen, whatever sacrifices that entails, rather than making excuses for why it didn't happen.

Quoting from your first post:

I have applied for sponsorship training twice in the past but the selection process is very tough and the competition is very fierce, so I was not successful.  Typical figures are 20,000 applicants and only 200 of those are selected.  Until recently the airline industry drasticaly reduced the sponsorship programs.

I have applied again and making more progress this time, its still early days and I'm waiting to hear if I have progressed on to the next phase.

Howver, I keep asking myself whether I should continue and once again it's all down to finances.  

Your thread is titled 'Dilemma - dream job in jeopardy due to finances'. The unhappy reality is that in 20 years you've done nothing to actually make it happen, nor do you seem to have come anywhere near being offered a place on any sort of pilot training scheme. To say that 'once again it's all down to finances' isn't true; that fact that you weren't successful had nothing to do with finances and everything to do with the fact that competition is fierce and you weren't in the top 1%. If you do get to the next phase, and are asked how you are going to fund yourself for the next two years, what compelling answer are you going to be able to give?

From everything you've said, your 'dream job' is actually just a 'dream' and probably given your age etc will always remain so - but surely there must be something which stirs your interest enough to improve your working life? It's horrid to dash someone's hopes as roundly as my replies (and others) on this thread have done without some positive suggestions, but while you remain so focussed on something which on your own admission is unattainable, it's hard to do otherwise.

But it really would be good if you could find something...

With all due respect, you are incorrect and dont know anything about my life.   The real burning passion is there, but its not excuses, its obstacles due to life.

For the last 15 years I have been single and a single parent.  Living alone is very expensive, then there is the high cost of child maintenance on top of that.

I used to work 11 hour days and have my daughter every friday and every other weekend and holidays too, so free time was very limited.  Before she was born we moved away from family who live 100 miles away, so we had very little support whilst she was growing up.

For the last 5 years I have been helping my daughter recover from an eating disorder and a break down in a relationship with her mum, who herself has serious physical and mental health issues.

For 10 years I was paying high rents, but I managed to get on the property ladder aged 40.

I you knew anything about pilot training, the cost is a barrier for most aspiring pilots.  Pilots either have rich parents, or their parents remortgage their house, or they have come from the RAF or they have been sponsored.

But pilot sponsorships schemes are rare and this was made even worse after 9/11 and the pandemic.  The competition is fierce, they can afford to pick the best of the best because there are so many applicants and very few spaces. 

My daughter is in a better situation now and finally building her own life.  There was no way on earth I would walk away from her and not support her, that's a sacrifice I would never make.

So now tell me I made no effort and it was all excuses

sky_rat

Received email today and was rejected. So that answers this dilemma 

kimwp

sky_rat said:

Received email today and was rejected. So that answers this dilemma 

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully it gives you a solid base to make new plans from?

Nothanks

Sorry to hear about the rejection - in this thread there has been some well meaning and sound advice from Marcon and others; I hope when it stings a bit less you can find something to give you that buzz in life.