Dilemma - dream job in jeopardy due to finances

CKhalvashi

The reality is that if the training isn't affordable you can't do it.

Funded schemes, as you've found, are only funded upfront. It may be worth looking at one of the smaller but reputable training organisations such as SMATSA (who have a lot of former students holding EASA licenses), however that will limit your opportunities in the UK to a limited number of airlines due to decisions taken by the last government. The other risk of going in 'naked' is that in the even of a downturn you've got few options.

You also don't seem to have taken into account that you'll probably need to pay something towards a type rating and that line training will likely be on a more basic pay structure. The best few overall schemes in Europe are no longer available to UK nationals.

One of the other considerations is whether you really want a career of 4am starts or 2am finishes after 6 days of minimum rest. It's brutal on the body, especially as one gets older and this is the reality of aviation.

The reality is that aviation isn't necessarily for the wealthy but you're going to be looking at having to make sacrifices that it looks you may not wish to make such as renting if you want to achieve it.

Undervalued

CKhalvashi said:

The reality is that if the training isn't affordable you can't do it.

Funded schemes, as you've found, are only funded upfront. It may be worth looking at one of the smaller but reputable training organisations such as SMATSA (who have a lot of former students holding EASA licenses), however that will limit your opportunities in the UK to a limited number of airlines due to decisions taken by the last government. The other risk of going in 'naked' is that in the even of a downturn you've got few options.

You also don't seem to have taken into account that you'll probably need to pay something towards a type rating and that line training will likely be on a more basic pay structure. The best few overall schemes in Europe are no longer available to UK nationals.

One of the other considerations is whether you really want a career of 4am starts or 2am finishes after 6 days of minimum rest. It's brutal on the body, especially as one gets older and this is the reality of aviation.

The reality is that aviation isn't necessarily for the wealthy but you're going to be looking at having to make sacrifices that it looks you may not wish to make such as renting if you want to achieve it.

Excellent advice ^^^^^^^

Just to add, as if I read the OP's original post correctly, he has not done any recreational flying?

Gliding is much cheaper and in many ways more challenging, than power flying and many airline pilots either started that way or pursue it as a recreation. Consider joining a gliding club this year whilst the situation with your daughter and mortgage becomes clearer.

Get some proper inside knowledge from the professional pilots you will meet and thoroughly look at the huge amount of work, both flying and ground school, involved in progressing to an ATPL. Have you done at least Maths and Physics to A level? Are you totally confident (as far as you can be) that your health is good enough, both physical and mental, and likely to remain that way to pass the professional level medicals?

sky_rat

Wyndham said:

I appreciate that it's difficult, but sometimes our dreams are just not possible.

On a more practical note, have you had any feedback on previous applications? Do you know what is different this time? Do you know what wasn't there before which you either now have or can prove in a better way? With the figures you mention, anyone would need to be not just good, but exceptional, in order to get the funding.

Is there something you could do which while it wouldn't be the dream job, would at least be closer to it, and enough to get you away from your current role?

This time round I have a much better experience of the tests and have put more preperation in beforehand.  Plus the fact that I feel this is my last chance (due to age) and the fact I am so fedup with my existing career.  The reason the compeition is so fierce is because they are looking for exceptional people.  Not because good people could not do the job, but because the training costs are so high and they have high volume of applicants so they can afford to be picky (they actually said this when I first applied 20 years ago)

elsien

I’m really sorry if this comes across it as unkind because i that’s not the intention. 

But you have been applying unsuccessfully for 20 years - is that not sending you a message at all?

TheSpectator

sky_rat said:

Wyndham said:

I appreciate that it's difficult, but sometimes our dreams are just not possible.

On a more practical note, have you had any feedback on previous applications? Do you know what is different this time? Do you know what wasn't there before which you either now have or can prove in a better way? With the figures you mention, anyone would need to be not just good, but exceptional, in order to get the funding.

Is there something you could do which while it wouldn't be the dream job, would at least be closer to it, and enough to get you away from your current role?

This time round I have a much better experience of the tests and have put more preperation in beforehand.  Plus the fact that I feel this is my last chance (due to age) and the fact I am so fedup with my existing career.  The reason the compeition is so fierce is because they are looking for exceptional people.  Not because good people could not do the job, but because the training costs are so high and they have high volume of applicants so they can afford to be picky (they actually said this when I first applied 20 years ago)

So, let's say you get through this time......you have not addressed any of the other points raised. What are you going to live on for 2 years?

Are you prepared to sacrifice your family for thia 'dream'

sky_rat

LightFlare said:

Maybe try and get the best of both worlds and do your private pilots licence so you can still get the fun out of flying without it costing you an arm and a leg.
Plus, it’s a good 1st step and might lead to further aviation opportunities/ideas

(it’s still not cheap, but nowhere near 100k)

I would love to get my PPL (private pilots license) but again its down to cost.  I have spoken to many pilots becuase my hobby is skydiving, which I have been doing for the last 20 years but even struggle to afford that !

I know many people who have their PPL and have talked to them about it.  Like everything else the training costs have shot up and it would now cost around £10k just to get my PPL.  

Then there is the expense of buying shares in a plane which costs a fortune each year.  I know people who got their PPL but have now lost their license because they could not afford to buy shares in a plane (or the hourly rate of hiring a plane). 

Also its not just about flying, its about a career change into something I have been fascinated with and wanted to do for the last 20 years.

sky_rat

Marcon said:

sky_rat said:

Apologies if this is the wrong group, I don't think there is a group for the financial dilemma I have...

For the last 20 years my dream has been to become a commercial pilot, but the training cost is £100,000 and I don't have that kind of money !

Why is it your dream job? Have you ever flown a plane? Are you sure it isn't a fantasy rather than a dream - which might in truth turn into a (financial) nightmare all too readily, not least when the next pandemic grounds the industry once more. I meet so many people who tell me they dream of becoming a lawyer, but spell out the realities to them (ridiculously long hours and heavy pressure being top of the list), and suddenly they realise that what they imagine a job will be like is nothing like the reality.

Glamour, status and high income can exact a huge price and many sacrifices, often with no guarantee that the hard-won prize will come close to living up to expectations.

See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81197229#Comment_81197229?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=pilot and in particular the post by flatfacedcat on 2 January, which might be a reality check worth taking now.

Instead of fantasising about a career you are never likely to pursue, why not try and improve your prospects or look for another career avenue based on reality? 

Thanks for the link, interesting to see someone else wanting to be a pilot and also hating their current career, although it amazes me that people can save that sort of money for the training.

I've always loved flying, the experience, the views, the aircraft, being able to fly around the world, weather phenomimes etc.  I have flown several light aircraft, one was a trial flight and another with someone I know who has their PPL and shares in an aircraft.  I have also been in one of the simulators used for training.   I have an engineering degree and have worked in aerospace for the last 5 years, though its with toy drones which does not interest me.  I understand the basic theory of aircraft, yet it still amazes how these huge machines appear to glide effortlessly through the sky and fly at high speeds and alititudes.  As a passenger I always want the window seat and spend a lot of time looking at the views and the workings of the aircraft.  I'm like an excited child and the flying part of any holiday abroad is something I really enjoy.  I've seen the cockpit many times and spoken to many pilots.  The cockpit fascinates me with all the switches and displays.  I know pilots who fly commercial and private from my skydiving hobby over the last 20 years.  I did consider working for an aerospace company like BAE, but having spoken to other engineers I soon realised that you would spend many years working on just a small part because safety is critical.  I also considered working as an aircraft maintenance engineer and know someone who does this as a career.  But they said you would start at the bottom doing the tasks no one wants to do such as maintaining the onboard toilets and this career is mainly a nightshift role to get the aircraft ready for the flights in the daytime.

Tucosalamanca

This doesn't help with your career path and at the risk of going off topic, have you ever thought of paragliding?
I've only recently become interested after chatting to a chap who was flying along the jurrasic coast. It's not for me (I don't like heights) but it appears to be a very cheap and exhilarating way to 'fly'?
It might be a useful distraction and make work a little more bearable?

sky_rat

elsien said:

I’m really sorry if this comes across it as unkind because i that’s not the intention. 

But you have been applying unsuccessfully for 20 years - is that not sending you a message at all?

That’s ok I understand

ive only been able to apply 3 times as there has been very limited sponsorships during the last 20 years. 

The first time was 20 years ago and I was severely distracted with a major life change I wasn’t ready for which I would rather not go into

the 2nd time was 2 years ago and the 3rd time was this year. But each time I’ve had major obstacles in one way or another due to my circumstances. 

So it’s only been 3 times over 20 years. And I hear stories from pilots that it’s taken them many attempts, you have to be very exceptional and lucky to get through the first time with such fierce competition 

sky_rat

TheSpectator said:

sky_rat said:

Wyndham said:

I appreciate that it's difficult, but sometimes our dreams are just not possible.

On a more practical note, have you had any feedback on previous applications? Do you know what is different this time? Do you know what wasn't there before which you either now have or can prove in a better way? With the figures you mention, anyone would need to be not just good, but exceptional, in order to get the funding.

Is there something you could do which while it wouldn't be the dream job, would at least be closer to it, and enough to get you away from your current role?

This time round I have a much better experience of the tests and have put more preperation in beforehand.  Plus the fact that I feel this is my last chance (due to age) and the fact I am so fedup with my existing career.  The reason the compeition is so fierce is because they are looking for exceptional people.  Not because good people could not do the job, but because the training costs are so high and they have high volume of applicants so they can afford to be picky (they actually said this when I first applied 20 years ago)

So, let's say you get through this time......you have not addressed any of the other points raised. What are you going to live on for 2 years?

Are you prepared to sacrifice your family for thia 'dream'

Hence the reason for the original post. I don’t know how I would survive with no income for 2 years. I could only survive for 6 months at the most. 

I don’t have a family as such, I’m single and my daughter is growing up and has her own life now. Other than work I only have skydiving which is weather dependant so it’s severely limited with the uk weather even in so called summer. And even though it costs £25 to £30 a jump and I have my own equipment it’s still expensive (I average 30 jumps a year, they recommended a minimum of 50 to keep current)