Dilemma - dream job in jeopardy due to finances

kimwp

sky_rat said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe try and get the best of both worlds and do your private pilots licence so you can still get the fun out of flying without it costing you an arm and a leg.
Plus, it’s a good 1st step and might lead to further aviation opportunities/ideas

(it’s still not cheap, but nowhere near 100k)

I would love to get my PPL (private pilots license) but again its down to cost.  I have spoken to many pilots becuase my hobby is skydiving, which I have been doing for the last 20 years but even struggle to afford that !

I know many people who have their PPL and have talked to them about it.  Like everything else the training costs have shot up and it would now cost around £10k just to get my PPL.  

Then there is the expense of buying shares in a plane which costs a fortune each year.  I know people who got their PPL but have now lost their license because they could not afford to buy shares in a plane (or the hourly rate of hiring a plane). 

Also its not just about flying, its about a career change into something I have been fascinated with and wanted to do for the last 20 years.

If you can't afford a private pilots license, how are you going to go two years with no income, then six years on 58% of your income?

sky_rat

kimwp said:

sky_rat said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe try and get the best of both worlds and do your private pilots licence so you can still get the fun out of flying without it costing you an arm and a leg.
Plus, it’s a good 1st step and might lead to further aviation opportunities/ideas

(it’s still not cheap, but nowhere near 100k)

I would love to get my PPL (private pilots license) but again its down to cost.  I have spoken to many pilots becuase my hobby is skydiving, which I have been doing for the last 20 years but even struggle to afford that !

I know many people who have their PPL and have talked to them about it.  Like everything else the training costs have shot up and it would now cost around £10k just to get my PPL.  

Then there is the expense of buying shares in a plane which costs a fortune each year.  I know people who got their PPL but have now lost their license because they could not afford to buy shares in a plane (or the hourly rate of hiring a plane). 

Also its not just about flying, its about a career change into something I have been fascinated with and wanted to do for the last 20 years.

If you can't afford a private pilots license, how are you going to go two years with no income, then six years on 58% of your income?

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

TheSpectator

The harsh reality is that many don't like their job but it's a means to an end. By all means look at a career change but it's got ro be realistic. Hate to say it but your dream job of a pilot is more of a fantasy at this stage of your life.

CKhalvashi

Undervalued said:

CKhalvashi said:

The reality is that if the training isn't affordable you can't do it.

Funded schemes, as you've found, are only funded upfront. It may be worth looking at one of the smaller but reputable training organisations such as SMATSA (who have a lot of former students holding EASA licenses), however that will limit your opportunities in the UK to a limited number of airlines due to decisions taken by the last government. The other risk of going in 'naked' is that in the even of a downturn you've got few options.

You also don't seem to have taken into account that you'll probably need to pay something towards a type rating and that line training will likely be on a more basic pay structure. The best few overall schemes in Europe are no longer available to UK nationals.

One of the other considerations is whether you really want a career of 4am starts or 2am finishes after 6 days of minimum rest. It's brutal on the body, especially as one gets older and this is the reality of aviation.

The reality is that aviation isn't necessarily for the wealthy but you're going to be looking at having to make sacrifices that it looks you may not wish to make such as renting if you want to achieve it.

Excellent advice ^^^^^^^

Just to add, as if I read the OP's original post correctly, he has not done any recreational flying?

Gliding is much cheaper and in many ways more challenging, than power flying and many airline pilots either started that way or pursue it as a recreation. Consider joining a gliding club this year whilst the situation with your daughter and mortgage becomes clearer.

Get some proper inside knowledge from the professional pilots you will meet and thoroughly look at the huge amount of work, both flying and ground school, involved in progressing to an ATPL. Have you done at least Maths and Physics to A level? Are you totally confident (as far as you can be) that your health is good enough, both physical and mental, and likely to remain that way to pass the professional level medicals?

OH is a commercial pilot, I hold a PPL, that's how I can give the answer.

She's very happy with everything with arguably one of the best A320 commands in the UK, but it's honestly not for everyone.

I read the post as holding no PPL/other experience. In some cases this can be offputting for airlines, especially without airline experience, as it allows bad habits to develop. The harsh reality is that most airline want experienced crew. OH joined her current airline with about 1800 hours (in her 30s) and was able to upgrade quickly. This won't be possible for everyone either, although with the right skill set currently is, at least in her company.

Savvy_Sue

sky_rat said:

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

That seems very binary ... and it's not even as if you have an actual choice at the moment: until you're selected for this training (which you can't afford to do anyway), you have no other option than to stay in a job you hate? which is in danger of disappearing anyway? 

I thought these points were well made:

Mands said:

There's quite a lot of numbers in your post so let's put them into a timeline.

• You are 49. The course (which hasn't started yet) takes two years. You'll be 51, at best, when it finishes
• You will have zero income during those two years so will need to live off savings
• When you qualify your starting salary will be 58% of your current income
• But you'll need to start paying back the finance at, say 20k a year
• You will be 57 when the finance is due to be paid off
• Commercial pilots can not fly beyond 65

Do you think that is manageable?

Now, we may have legislation against age discrimination in the UK, but that doesn't mean it's not alive and well. Even if no-one asks for your date of birth, it's likely there are dates somewhere in the application form, and someone's going to be working out how old you are - I don't know about you, but when someone says they graduated in the same decade as me, I don't need a calculator to work out roughly how old they are. 

By all means carry on putting your all into this application if you've seen any way of making it work, but can't you at least put as much effort into a Plan B: finding another career you could be passionate about? Or if not a career, a hobby, an enthusiasm, a passion which gives purpose to life? 

kimwp

sky_rat said:

kimwp said:

sky_rat said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe try and get the best of both worlds and do your private pilots licence so you can still get the fun out of flying without it costing you an arm and a leg.
Plus, it’s a good 1st step and might lead to further aviation opportunities/ideas

(it’s still not cheap, but nowhere near 100k)

I would love to get my PPL (private pilots license) but again its down to cost.  I have spoken to many pilots becuase my hobby is skydiving, which I have been doing for the last 20 years but even struggle to afford that !

I know many people who have their PPL and have talked to them about it.  Like everything else the training costs have shot up and it would now cost around £10k just to get my PPL.  

Then there is the expense of buying shares in a plane which costs a fortune each year.  I know people who got their PPL but have now lost their license because they could not afford to buy shares in a plane (or the hourly rate of hiring a plane). 

Also its not just about flying, its about a career change into something I have been fascinated with and wanted to do for the last 20 years.

If you can't afford a private pilots license, how are you going to go two years with no income, then six years on 58% of your income?

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

Ok, so you couldn't afford it and you haven't passed the application. I'd say, if this is your last chance to apply, then apply, so you tried your best.

But start thinking about other careers?

MattMattMattUK

sky_rat said:

kimwp said:

sky_rat said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe try and get the best of both worlds and do your private pilots licence so you can still get the fun out of flying without it costing you an arm and a leg.
Plus, it’s a good 1st step and might lead to further aviation opportunities/ideas

(it’s still not cheap, but nowhere near 100k)

I would love to get my PPL (private pilots license) but again its down to cost.  I have spoken to many pilots becuase my hobby is skydiving, which I have been doing for the last 20 years but even struggle to afford that !

I know many people who have their PPL and have talked to them about it.  Like everything else the training costs have shot up and it would now cost around £10k just to get my PPL.  

Then there is the expense of buying shares in a plane which costs a fortune each year.  I know people who got their PPL but have now lost their license because they could not afford to buy shares in a plane (or the hourly rate of hiring a plane). 

Also its not just about flying, its about a career change into something I have been fascinated with and wanted to do for the last 20 years.

If you can't afford a private pilots license, how are you going to go two years with no income, then six years on 58% of your income?

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

You are stuck in a dead end job you hate because you have focused on the only alternative being something totally unattainable. 

Being brutally honest you are too old to become a commercial pilot, especially as you have not even got your PPL. 

Find another job, one that you do not hate, one that you can live with, one that pays more, stop holding out for the thing that will never happen. 

Marcon

sky_rat said:

Wyndham said:

I appreciate that it's difficult, but sometimes our dreams are just not possible.

On a more practical note, have you had any feedback on previous applications? Do you know what is different this time? Do you know what wasn't there before which you either now have or can prove in a better way? With the figures you mention, anyone would need to be not just good, but exceptional, in order to get the funding.

Is there something you could do which while it wouldn't be the dream job, would at least be closer to it, and enough to get you away from your current role?

This time round I have a much better experience of the tests and have put more preperation in beforehand.  Plus the fact that I feel this is my last chance (due to age) and the fact I am so fedup with my existing career.  The reason the compeition is so fierce is because they are looking for exceptional people.  Not because good people could not do the job, but because the training costs are so high and they have high volume of applicants so they can afford to be picky (they actually said this when I first applied 20 years ago)

You are fed up with your existing career, but....

sky_rat said:

Hence the reason for the original post. I don’t know how I would survive with no income for 2 years. I could only survive for 6 months at the most. 

Haven't you answered your own question?

Whatever your next step is, it needs to be on terra firma in every sense of the word. At the moment you're distracting yourself from reality with something which is purely a fantasy and referring to it as your 'dream job', when you really don't seem to have grasped that it isn't likely to be anything of the sort. It's just a cosy way of avoiding addressing the real issue: changing your job to something you would find considerably more pleasurable, given that you'll probably be working for at least another 20 years.

Marcon

sky_rat said:

kimwp said:

sky_rat said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe try and get the best of both worlds and do your private pilots licence so you can still get the fun out of flying without it costing you an arm and a leg.
Plus, it’s a good 1st step and might lead to further aviation opportunities/ideas

(it’s still not cheap, but nowhere near 100k)

I would love to get my PPL (private pilots license) but again its down to cost.  I have spoken to many pilots becuase my hobby is skydiving, which I have been doing for the last 20 years but even struggle to afford that !

I know many people who have their PPL and have talked to them about it.  Like everything else the training costs have shot up and it would now cost around £10k just to get my PPL.  

Then there is the expense of buying shares in a plane which costs a fortune each year.  I know people who got their PPL but have now lost their license because they could not afford to buy shares in a plane (or the hourly rate of hiring a plane). 

Also its not just about flying, its about a career change into something I have been fascinated with and wanted to do for the last 20 years.

If you can't afford a private pilots license, how are you going to go two years with no income, then six years on 58% of your income?

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

If losing your job is 'inevitable', then surely that adds even more impetus to the need to do something constructive and realistic about finding an alternative? What's holding you back from doing anything which might really give you a sensible way forwards and a better, more enjoyable lifestyle (hopefully one in which you can afford to get and keep your PPL)?

Jude57

Savvy_Sue said:

sky_rat said:

Obviously I can’t, so I stay stuck in a dead end job I hate and is going down the pan. One reason I have a small amount of savings is for when the inevitable happens and I lose my job

That seems very binary ... and it's not even as if you have an actual choice at the moment: until you're selected for this training (which you can't afford to do anyway), you have no other option than to stay in a job you hate? which is in danger of disappearing anyway? 

I thought these points were well made:

Mands said:

There's quite a lot of numbers in your post so let's put them into a timeline.

• You are 49. The course (which hasn't started yet) takes two years. You'll be 51, at best, when it finishes
• You will have zero income during those two years so will need to live off savings
• When you qualify your starting salary will be 58% of your current income
• But you'll need to start paying back the finance at, say 20k a year
• You will be 57 when the finance is due to be paid off
• Commercial pilots can not fly beyond 65

Do you think that is manageable?

Now, we may have legislation against age discrimination in the UK, but that doesn't mean it's not alive and well. Even if no-one asks for your date of birth, it's likely there are dates somewhere in the application form, and someone's going to be working out how old you are - I don't know about you, but when someone says they graduated in the same decade as me, I don't need a calculator to work out roughly how old they are. 

By all means carry on putting your all into this application if you've seen any way of making it work, but can't you at least put as much effort into a Plan B: finding another career you could be passionate about? Or if not a career, a hobby, an enthusiasm, a passion which gives purpose to life? 

That last part really resonated with me. If no actual career gives the OP that buzz he's seeking, how about getting involved in restoration of historic aircraft? Along the lines of the Battle of Britain Flight, perhaps? I have friends involved in, variously, restoration of aircraft, canals, cars, motorbikes, military vehicles and more. With an engineering background, the OP would be very valuable to such groups. And you never know where leisure or voluntary activities could lead. I know people who have found a completely new career direction as a result of following their hobby.