Would I be mad to buy a second hand PHEV?

daveyjp

I'd take a step back and research if it is mad to buy an 8 year old Mini of any flavour.

facade

There is no way on Earth that you would get 282 MPG out of a RAV4 hybrid on any sort of journey, it might appear to do 284 MPG by covering 63miles on 1 litre of petrol and the entire battery charge with the wind behind it at a steady 50mph (with a pre-heated engine, lights off, no heater/AC, windows tightly closed, don't touch the brakes or turn the steering wheel etc.) on a slight downhill incline, but it couldn't sustain it once the battery was discharged, and is more likely to get nearer 45MPG on a long ICE only run as it is dragging along all that now discharged battery.

 PHEV is really for niche useage - access to home charging, 50%+ sub 5 mile trips that total less than 40 miles a day with many  200 mile plus motorway journeys then I see the point, otherwise full EV for mainly short trips, diesel for mainly 200 mile plus ones.

shinytop

MattMattMattUK said:

A good EV would cost about 1.8p per mile, a small petrol is more like 15p per mile, a comparable petrol is going to be closer to 20p per mile, you are out by a factor of ten on the Rav4, it is going to be 3-5p per mile, not 0.4-0.5p per mile, that would make it the most efficient EV by a huge margin. An EV generally costs about £200 a year for service, PHEV can easily end up being £1k+ on a major service and £500+ on a minor. Range anxiety can be gotten over once people start being rational.

Have you made all of these numbers up or just the servicing costs ?  What ICE car costs more than £500 for a minor service?  Kia does fixed price service plans, and while the EV is cheaper, it's not by a significant amount. The first column is 2 services, the second is 3.  

 

shinytop

Veteransaver said:

shinytop said:

saker75 said:

I’ve had big diesels for years but my driving and journeys have changed. Most are less than a couple of miles, some regular 5-10 miles and then occasional long motorways journeys. I was looking for petrol but then saw this PHEV and thought it would be great for the very local journeys that I do. 

I'm thinking of getting one too.  I think PHEVs are the best of both worlds. Like you, most of my journeys are short/city trips.  I'll get cheap electric travel and emit no tailpipe emissions.  When I want to do my twice a month long trips the ICE does the job. 

A lot of people comment about lugging around an ICE engine unnecessarily but don't mention lugging around 200 miles of unused battery capacity most of the time in an EV.   And a PHEV isn't going to lose battery range over time any more than an EV is it? 

A diesel may not be a good choice for our sort of driving.

They are considered worst of both worlds because under EV only they are quite underpowered. And once the battery is exhausted the fuel consumption is very poor, you might as well just get a more efficient pure diesel.
Most full EVs will comfortably do 200 miles+ now at any time of the year.
Yes you can make a use case for one of you have no more than about a 20mile commute each day and can do it on electric. But you won't really be saving much in running costs, and you'll be charging it in every day

A Kia Niro PHEV makes 87 bhp whilst in EV mode.  It's not going to win any drag races but is more than enough for city/suburban driving.  

Have you owned a PHEV?  I have, and the fuel consumption is about the same as a hybrid or diesel unless you ask it to charge the battery with the ICE - then it is poor.

I wouldn't have a diesel but that's my choice.

Veteransaver

shinytop said:

Veteransaver said:

shinytop said:

saker75 said:

I’ve had big diesels for years but my driving and journeys have changed. Most are less than a couple of miles, some regular 5-10 miles and then occasional long motorways journeys. I was looking for petrol but then saw this PHEV and thought it would be great for the very local journeys that I do. 

I'm thinking of getting one too.  I think PHEVs are the best of both worlds. Like you, most of my journeys are short/city trips.  I'll get cheap electric travel and emit no tailpipe emissions.  When I want to do my twice a month long trips the ICE does the job. 

A lot of people comment about lugging around an ICE engine unnecessarily but don't mention lugging around 200 miles of unused battery capacity most of the time in an EV.   And a PHEV isn't going to lose battery range over time any more than an EV is it? 

A diesel may not be a good choice for our sort of driving.

They are considered worst of both worlds because under EV only they are quite underpowered. And once the battery is exhausted the fuel consumption is very poor, you might as well just get a more efficient pure diesel.
Most full EVs will comfortably do 200 miles+ now at any time of the year.
Yes you can make a use case for one of you have no more than about a 20mile commute each day and can do it on electric. But you won't really be saving much in running costs, and you'll be charging it in every day

A Kia Niro PHEV makes 87 bhp whilst in EV mode.  It's not going to win any drag races but is more than enough for city/suburban driving.  

Have you owned a PHEV?  I have, and the fuel consumption is about the same as a hybrid or diesel unless you ask it to charge the battery with the ICE - then it is poor.

I wouldn't have a diesel but that's my choice.

Yes I'm aware that newer phevs are better and have bigger batteries etc therefore more power electric motors, but the op is asking about an 8 year old one, where the battery is likely to be small well past its best and hence the EV only mileage won't be very good.

shinytop

Veteransaver said:

shinytop said:

Veteransaver said:

shinytop said:

saker75 said:

I’ve had big diesels for years but my driving and journeys have changed. Most are less than a couple of miles, some regular 5-10 miles and then occasional long motorways journeys. I was looking for petrol but then saw this PHEV and thought it would be great for the very local journeys that I do. 

I'm thinking of getting one too.  I think PHEVs are the best of both worlds. Like you, most of my journeys are short/city trips.  I'll get cheap electric travel and emit no tailpipe emissions.  When I want to do my twice a month long trips the ICE does the job. 

A lot of people comment about lugging around an ICE engine unnecessarily but don't mention lugging around 200 miles of unused battery capacity most of the time in an EV.   And a PHEV isn't going to lose battery range over time any more than an EV is it? 

A diesel may not be a good choice for our sort of driving.

They are considered worst of both worlds because under EV only they are quite underpowered. And once the battery is exhausted the fuel consumption is very poor, you might as well just get a more efficient pure diesel.
Most full EVs will comfortably do 200 miles+ now at any time of the year.
Yes you can make a use case for one of you have no more than about a 20mile commute each day and can do it on electric. But you won't really be saving much in running costs, and you'll be charging it in every day

A Kia Niro PHEV makes 87 bhp whilst in EV mode.  It's not going to win any drag races but is more than enough for city/suburban driving.  

Have you owned a PHEV?  I have, and the fuel consumption is about the same as a hybrid or diesel unless you ask it to charge the battery with the ICE - then it is poor.

I wouldn't have a diesel but that's my choice.

Yes I'm aware that newer phevs are better and have bigger batteries etc therefore more power electric motors, but the op is asking about an 8 year old one, where the battery is likely to be small well past its best and hence the EV only mileage won't be very good.

fair enough ... 

paul_c123

PHEVs have a use case where if you match it, make a lot of sense. If you:

1) Do mainly shortish journeys which can be done on battery alone (ie 20-30 miles commute or less)
2) Can charge at home/work/both
3) Occasionally do long (as in, 300+ miles...) journeys
4) Don't want, or can't, put up with the cost and time it would take to recharge on that long journey

There's no strong evidence of PHEV battery degradation.

While some say "its the worst of both worlds" its only because they are narrow-minded and don't understand the use case they're good at. You could just as easily say "its the best of both worlds".

Freecall

It would be a rare beast that does just 20 miles on a regular basis and then 'occasionally' does a six hour 300+ mile monster trip without stopping as in this use case example.

Bigphil1474

To be fair when the grandkids lived down South, I was doing my daily commute during the week (about 18 miles round trip each day), then we'd go see them once a fortnight which was a 400 mile round trip. I always preferred the 200 mile trip down non stop because if we stopped we'd hit Friday rush hour. We'd usually stop on the way back. They've now moved closer thank goodness.

facade

As said, a niche usage case, I just don't think there are very many people that it truly fits, and PHEVs are sold more on easing range anxiety on exceptional journeys rather than suitability.

You could argue that regular EVs have a niche usage - must be able to charge at home/work/away from the expensive network and never more than 180-300 (depending on car) miles per day, but this fits an awful lot of people!

Same for diesel- mainly regular long trips to avoid DPF issues- again fits an awful lot of people!