Double Council Tax!!

ReadySteadyPop

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

freesha said:

It IS a home, who are you to say it's too small for a local to live in? I bet at least one local would be delighted to own a small cottage. Pay what you owe. Also you say you're not pension age but not working - why? Unless some massive drip-fee about being medically unable to?

The problem is though that if you discourage people who may have a bit of cash to spend in your community from having a holiday place in your community they won`t come and spend money anymore, will the local who buys a cottage spend as much as someone from London flush with cash?

It is about community. Housing cannot be seen just in terms of financial investment but about a network of local people living and supporting one another to improve the quality of all of their lives  

So a nice family using their holiday cottage and spending money in local businesses isn`t really required? The basic problem is cost, if housing was cheap no one would notice who had "bought up" small holiday cottages that a family couldn`t live in anyway.

housebuyer143

ReadySteadyPop said:

housebuyer143 said:

Bigphil1474 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

lincroft1710 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

lincroft1710 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

lincroft1710 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

The irony of "double council tax" is that loads of councils made massive losses on commercial property bets, now they are gouging more prudent people who can afford a second home to pay for their mistakes!

Councils don't like "second homes" because it is a property lost from the housing stock. It is central government who decreed councils could charge double CT. CT is governed by a wealth of Parliamentary legislation 

Housing stock isn`t the problem, the problem is the cost of housing has been driven up too high by too much cheap debt (this situation seems to be quickly changing thankfully) Government are telling councils to raise cash any way they can to avoid having to bail out councils who mismanaged their spending and investment, "second home owners" are just an easy target at the moment, price gouging people who own a cottage on the coast isn`t going to fix the UK`s  problems unfortunately.

I see we are back on our high horse about house prices!


The government took away a useful councils' income stream by firstly making councils pay income from Non Domestic Rates to central government for them to redistribute as they thought fit and then exempting loads of business properties from actually paying rates.


Since the 1960s I have been monitoring house prices and apart from a couple of glitches, they have risen alarmingly and show no sign of this trend being reversed. In 1976 I bought a house sold it less than 3 years later for 50% more than I paid for it, having only done some decorating. The only time house prices tend to fall is when mortgage rates become extortionate

Councils gouging people who have managed to afford a second property isn`t going to solve anything.

I don't recall anyone saying it would, but income is income especially if you're a cash strapped council!

Fair point, I just don`t agree with an across the board council tax purge, people who only spend a few months/weeks in an area/property should be getting a discount not paying double! How is that fair, you are not using council resources in the local area when you are in another part of the country? Where double council tax probably does work is in encouraging professional landlords to keep their property fully occupied, even if that means dropping the rent.

It's not just about property availability though. Another aspect is that those people who only spend a few weeks or months in an area only contribute for a few weeks or months to the local economy. There are loads of holiday type destinations in the UK that are like ghost towns in the winter. That means the locals who do have a job struggle, because what business is gonna employ a full staff if they only get 3 customers a day in the winter. It's the whole knock on effect. If these destinations are populated by full time residents, the peaks and troughs are less extreme which is better overall for those locals, and stops house prices rocketing.

Don't think anybody likes some high flyer flouncing over for a few weeks a year and flashing the cash either.

I think I read about a place in Cornwall or West Wales where they didn't have enough permanent kids living local to run a primary school because there were so many holiday and second homes. People don't think about how second homes can impact an area. 

Nothing to do with second homes, more about birth rate and the debt required to put down roots, and maybe Brexit according to this article, whatever it is shortage of houses is not the problem.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/more-london-schools-named-as-being-under-threat-of-closure-due-to-lack-of-children-b1183852.html

It was directly related to second homes. The kids had to be transported out of the area to a primary school. 

Emmia

ReadySteadyPop said:

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

freesha said:

It IS a home, who are you to say it's too small for a local to live in? I bet at least one local would be delighted to own a small cottage. Pay what you owe. Also you say you're not pension age but not working - why? Unless some massive drip-fee about being medically unable to?

The problem is though that if you discourage people who may have a bit of cash to spend in your community from having a holiday place in your community they won`t come and spend money anymore, will the local who buys a cottage spend as much as someone from London flush with cash?

It is about community. Housing cannot be seen just in terms of financial investment but about a network of local people living and supporting one another to improve the quality of all of their lives  

So a nice family using their holiday cottage and spending money in local businesses isn`t really required? The basic problem is cost, if housing was cheap no one would notice who had "bought up" small holiday cottages that a family couldn`t live in anyway.

A "nice family using their holiday cottage" 

Are you suggesting people who live in these places all the time aren't "nice" ?

Holiday makers and bolt hole owners don't spend money week in, week out, this is what keeps villages alive.

Housing isn't cheap in these areas as people like you have bought it up, limiting supply and causing price rises so that locals can't afford to live there. 

RAS

ReadySteadyPop said:

Nothing to do with second homes, more about birth rate and the debt required to put down roots, and maybe Brexit according to this article, whatever it is shortage of houses is not the problem.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/more-london-schools-named-as-being-under-threat-of-closure-due-to-lack-of-children-b1183852.html

An article on the over-heated London housing market has no relevance to small post-industrial landscapes with scatter communities.

I've been visiting one area for the last 3 decades. Initially I could get to the highest village by afternoon bus, which also enabled local residents to get to work, secondary school, shops, use facilities in the nearest decent sized town. Then the teenagers grew up and there was no "need" to run afternoon bus. Gradually it withdrew down the valley. At one stage I could walk over the hill to get to my destination, then it became necessary to camp en route except in high summer.

Thankfully the community bus will now serve the highest village but you have to phone the evening prior to make arrangements, and the timetables shift at short notice. One of the pubs has been taken into local management but was run by volunteers for months. The new LL is still unable to get enough staff for the summer months, so volunteers still pitch in.

There is nowhere a single person or couple can rent. If you are live in, you're tied to a very small place most of the week unless you've got a car and to get out need to book the bus both ways before you start the evening shift. 

ReadySteadyPop

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

freesha said:

It IS a home, who are you to say it's too small for a local to live in? I bet at least one local would be delighted to own a small cottage. Pay what you owe. Also you say you're not pension age but not working - why? Unless some massive drip-fee about being medically unable to?

The problem is though that if you discourage people who may have a bit of cash to spend in your community from having a holiday place in your community they won`t come and spend money anymore, will the local who buys a cottage spend as much as someone from London flush with cash?

It is about community. Housing cannot be seen just in terms of financial investment but about a network of local people living and supporting one another to improve the quality of all of their lives  

 The basic problem is cost, if housing was cheap no one would notice who had "bought up" small holiday cottages that a family couldn`t live in anyway.

Not convinced by the argument that a cottage suitable for visiting families would be unsuitable for locals 

Surely locals would buy it in that case?

Grumpy_chap

ReadySteadyPop said:

 people who only spend a few months/weeks in an area/property should be getting a discount not paying double! How is that fair, you are not using council resources in the local area when you are in another part of the country? 

I really don't see how a Council would actually save meaningful amount of money by a property only partially occupied throughout the year.

A Council has to make arrangements to attend each house in each road to collect the waste every week (or every fortnight).  They cannot organise this service to only visit a second home on whatever random weeks in the year that the holiday homeowner unilaterally decides to be in residence.

I can't see what services a Council offers that might actually result in a cost saving by the property being vacant some of the time.

ReadySteadyPop

Emmia said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

freesha said:

It IS a home, who are you to say it's too small for a local to live in? I bet at least one local would be delighted to own a small cottage. Pay what you owe. Also you say you're not pension age but not working - why? Unless some massive drip-fee about being medically unable to?

The problem is though that if you discourage people who may have a bit of cash to spend in your community from having a holiday place in your community they won`t come and spend money anymore, will the local who buys a cottage spend as much as someone from London flush with cash?

It is about community. Housing cannot be seen just in terms of financial investment but about a network of local people living and supporting one another to improve the quality of all of their lives  

So a nice family using their holiday cottage and spending money in local businesses isn`t really required? The basic problem is cost, if housing was cheap no one would notice who had "bought up" small holiday cottages that a family couldn`t live in anyway.

A "nice family using their holiday cottage" 

Are you suggesting people who live in these places all the time aren't "nice" ?

Holiday makers and bolt hole owners don't spend money week in, week out, this is what keeps villages alive.

Housing isn't cheap in these areas as people like you have bought it up, limiting supply and causing price rises so that locals can't afford to live there. 

So should all the second home owners sell up and let some of these councils go bust, will that help the community?

Emmia

ReadySteadyPop said:

Emmia said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

freesha said:

It IS a home, who are you to say it's too small for a local to live in? I bet at least one local would be delighted to own a small cottage. Pay what you owe. Also you say you're not pension age but not working - why? Unless some massive drip-fee about being medically unable to?

The problem is though that if you discourage people who may have a bit of cash to spend in your community from having a holiday place in your community they won`t come and spend money anymore, will the local who buys a cottage spend as much as someone from London flush with cash?

It is about community. Housing cannot be seen just in terms of financial investment but about a network of local people living and supporting one another to improve the quality of all of their lives  

So a nice family using their holiday cottage and spending money in local businesses isn`t really required? The basic problem is cost, if housing was cheap no one would notice who had "bought up" small holiday cottages that a family couldn`t live in anyway.

A "nice family using their holiday cottage" 

Are you suggesting people who live in these places all the time aren't "nice" ?

Holiday makers and bolt hole owners don't spend money week in, week out, this is what keeps villages alive.

Housing isn't cheap in these areas as people like you have bought it up, limiting supply and causing price rises so that locals can't afford to live there. 

So should all the second home owners sell up and let some of these councils go bust, will that help the community?

If you sold up, someone would buy it and they would pay in. Hopefully they'd live there permanently and would contribute financially and socially to their community.

jimbog

ReadySteadyPop said:

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

jimbog said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

freesha said:

It IS a home, who are you to say it's too small for a local to live in? I bet at least one local would be delighted to own a small cottage. Pay what you owe. Also you say you're not pension age but not working - why? Unless some massive drip-fee about being medically unable to?

The problem is though that if you discourage people who may have a bit of cash to spend in your community from having a holiday place in your community they won`t come and spend money anymore, will the local who buys a cottage spend as much as someone from London flush with cash?

It is about community. Housing cannot be seen just in terms of financial investment but about a network of local people living and supporting one another to improve the quality of all of their lives  

 The basic problem is cost, if housing was cheap no one would notice who had "bought up" small holiday cottages that a family couldn`t live in anyway.

Not convinced by the argument that a cottage suitable for visiting families would be unsuitable for locals 

Surely locals would buy it in that case?

Unfortunately locals have been priced out in many cases 

youth_leader

It's a global problem isn't it.  I was in Madeira at Christmas, and went on a tour with a guide.  He told me his daughter was a midwife and still lived at home with him and his wife as she couldn't get onto the property ladder.  He lived in Santana.  Flats in Funchal used to be 150,000 euros - they are now selling for nearly 1000,000 euros.  Out of curiousity I've just had a look ... I have found a few 2 beds for £700K.