SCS no sofa delivery date

CMT1967

I’m looking for advice from anyone on what my rights and options are where SCS hasn’t delivered a sofa by the delivery date and I am now struggling to get in touch with them about it.  

We bought the sofa outright in early November (stupidly on a debit card). We were advised that the sofa would be delivered by 27th January. Two weeks after this date, we received an email from SCS saying they were experiencing difficulties as a business and they were now unable to advise when our sofa would be delivered. Their T&Cs state that a delivery date should be agreed within four weeks of the original date; this period has now passed (though they are silent on what happens if they don’t set a date and allowing cancellation then). 

I have tried calling (their wait times are at least two hours), requesting a callback, went into store and email. Apparently there is a particular team that deals with it and I’ve been unable to reach them direct / they’ve ignored my requests to get in contact. 

What can I do? 

born_again

CMT1967 said:

I’m looking for advice from anyone on what my rights and options are where SCS hasn’t delivered a sofa by the delivery date and I am now struggling to get in touch with them about it.  

We bought the sofa outright in early November (stupidly on a debit card). We were advised that the sofa would be delivered by 27th January. Two weeks after this date, we received an email from SCS saying they were experiencing difficulties as a business and they were now unable to advise when our sofa would be delivered. Their T&Cs state that a delivery date should be agreed within four weeks of the original date; this period has now passed (though they are silent on what happens if they don’t set a date and allowing cancellation then). 

I have tried calling (their wait times are at least two hours), requesting a callback, went into store and email. Apparently there is a particular team that deals with it and I’ve been unable to reach them direct / they’ve ignored my requests to get in contact. 

What can I do? 

Technically as they are late delivering. You start the chargeback process to reclaim the funds on the basis of non receipt of goods.
They could not contest on the basis, that they can not give a delivery date. 
Just how they would deal with this after your refund, is open to question.
They could simply do nothing on the basis they do not know when the sofa will arrive, of they could go the legal route.

Have you tried asking store, that given they can not give a delivery date, can you pick another sofa instead? 

CMT1967

born_again said:

CMT1967 said:

I’m looking for advice from anyone on what my rights and options are where SCS hasn’t delivered a sofa by the delivery date and I am now struggling to get in touch with them about it.  

We bought the sofa outright in early November (stupidly on a debit card). We were advised that the sofa would be delivered by 27th January. Two weeks after this date, we received an email from SCS saying they were experiencing difficulties as a business and they were now unable to advise when our sofa would be delivered. Their T&Cs state that a delivery date should be agreed within four weeks of the original date; this period has now passed (though they are silent on what happens if they don’t set a date and allowing cancellation then). 

I have tried calling (their wait times are at least two hours), requesting a callback, went into store and email. Apparently there is a particular team that deals with it and I’ve been unable to reach them direct / they’ve ignored my requests to get in contact. 

What can I do? 

Technically as they are late delivering. You start the chargeback process to reclaim the funds on the basis of non receipt of goods.
They could not contest on the basis, that they can not give a delivery date. 
Just how they would deal with this after your refund, is open to question.
They could simply do nothing on the basis they do not know when the sofa will arrive, of they could go the legal route.

Have you tried asking store, that given they can not give a delivery date, can you pick another sofa instead? 

Thank you, we’ll try that and see how we get on! 

I haven’t asked the store if we can choose another sofa, but to be honest, given our experience with them, I just want to be done with them rather than risking being in this position again in when the new delivery date comes round. 

A_Geordie

I would be cautious of initiating a chargeback immediately as SCS would still be under the impression you haven't actually terminated the contract for non-delivery and I am not entirely sure you can simply terminate at this stage. Seeking a chargeback is akin to termination as you are reneging on your obligation to pay for the sofa.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if there is an agreed delivery date then you can only terminate if SCS have refused to deliver the sofa or if you explained to them before entering into the contract that it was essential to deliver by that date, then only then can you terminate the contract and treat it as at an end. 

In other circumstances, you have the right to specify a date of delivery and failure deliver by that date, then you can terminate the contract. 

I would suggest you write them an email and confirm in writing that in accordance with your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, SCS are in breach of contract by failing to deliver by the agreed date. Explain that unless the sofa is delivered within the next X days (and to be pedantic you should specify the time and date it should be delivered by) you are treating the contract as terminated and expect a full refund within 14 days after the due delivery date. 

Non-payment after that you could then start the chargeback process.

For reference, have a read of this: Consumer Rights Act 2015

born_again

A_Geordie said:

I would be cautious of initiating a chargeback immediately as SCS would still be under the impression you haven't actually terminated the contract for non-delivery and I am not entirely sure you can simply terminate at this stage. Seeking a chargeback is akin to termination as you are reneging on your obligation to pay for the sofa.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if there is an agreed delivery date then you can only terminate if SCS have refused to deliver the sofa or if you explained to them before entering into the contract that it was essential to deliver by that date, then only then can you terminate the contract and treat it as at an end. 

In other circumstances, you have the right to specify a date of delivery and failure deliver by that date, then you can terminate the contract. 

I would suggest you write them an email and confirm in writing that in accordance with your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, SCS are in breach of contract by failing to deliver by the agreed date. Explain that unless the sofa is delivered within the next X days (and to be pedantic you should specify the time and date it should be delivered by) you are treating the contract as terminated and expect a full refund within 14 days after the due delivery date. 

Non-payment after that you could then start the chargeback process.

For reference, have a read of this: Consumer Rights Act 2015

This is why I said "Technically as they are late delivering" the actual reg just gives retailers 15 days from debit date to deliver, unless other date is stated. After that date it is technically possible to raise a chargeback. Which retailer has next to no chance of contesting.

All chargeback is doing is claiming the funds back. They have no legal standing & do not cancel any contract. Hence why companies can chase via courts to get their funds. So yes, reneging on paying.

If OP cancelled the order with SCS, there would be no right to a non receipt chargeback, for obvious reasons. Non receipt of refund requires a receipt stating. Date of refund, amount & last 4 of card no. 
As you can guess not the easiest thing to get.

A_Geordie

born_again said:

This is why I said "Technically as they are late delivering" the actual reg just gives retailers 15 days from debit date to deliver, unless other date is stated. After that date it is technically possible to raise a chargeback. Which retailer has next to no chance of contesting.

All chargeback is doing is claiming the funds back. They have no legal standing & do not cancel any contract. Hence why companies can chase via courts to get their funds. So yes, reneging on paying.

If OP cancelled the order with SCS, there would be no right to a non receipt chargeback, for obvious reasons. Non receipt of refund requires a receipt stating. Date of refund, amount & last 4 of card no. 
As you can guess not the easiest thing to get.

I understand how the rules work but just because it is open to the OP, it doesn't mean they should initiate it. The problem with initiating a chargeback before giving notice of termination is that the SCS could argue that the OP committed a repudiatory breach i.e. they have shown an intention not to fulfil their payment obligations under the contract. Alternatively, SCS could argue that the OP treated the contract as terminated by starting the chargeback process and, because they did not follow the statutory process under the CRA or the contract terms, it amounted to a wrongful termination and that in of itself is a repudiatory breach.

SCS can then itself seek to terminate the contract, claim damages through legal proceedings and the OP having to pay back SCS the full amount owed but with no sofa, all because of the chargeback. If the contract was financed, then there could also be repercussions as to the OP's credit status too.

The decision is for the OP to make but I was simply highlighting the potential dangers of doing so. As for the chargeback after cancellation, I'm pretty sure a chargeback can still be processed based on cancelation for non-receipt of goods delivered by the agreed delivery date.

born_again

A_Geordie said:

born_again said:

This is why I said "Technically as they are late delivering" the actual reg just gives retailers 15 days from debit date to deliver, unless other date is stated. After that date it is technically possible to raise a chargeback. Which retailer has next to no chance of contesting.

All chargeback is doing is claiming the funds back. They have no legal standing & do not cancel any contract. Hence why companies can chase via courts to get their funds. So yes, reneging on paying.

If OP cancelled the order with SCS, there would be no right to a non receipt chargeback, for obvious reasons. Non receipt of refund requires a receipt stating. Date of refund, amount & last 4 of card no. 
As you can guess not the easiest thing to get.

I understand how the rules work but just because it is open to the OP, it doesn't mean they should initiate it. The problem with initiating a chargeback before giving notice of termination is that the SCS could argue that the OP committed a repudiatory breach i.e. they have shown an intention not to fulfil their payment obligations under the contract. Alternatively, SCS could argue that the OP treated the contract as terminated by starting the chargeback process and, because they did not follow the statutory process under the CRA or the contract terms, it amounted to a wrongful termination and that in of itself is a repudiatory breach.

SCS can then itself seek to terminate the contract, claim damages through legal proceedings and the OP having to pay back SCS the full amount owed but with no sofa, all because of the chargeback. If the contract was financed, then there could also be repercussions as to the OP's credit status too.

The decision is for the OP to make but I was simply highlighting the potential dangers of doing so. As for the chargeback after cancellation, I'm pretty sure a chargeback can still be processed based on cancelation for non-receipt of goods delivered by the agreed delivery date.

How can you cancel & then argue non receipt of goods?
It's a slam dump chargeback failure & you would be lucky if your bank would action it. I know we would get crucified for such a silly action, knowing it was going to fail. 

All I did was point out the option to the OP. As well as pointing out the risk.  🤷‍♀️

A_Geordie

You are requesting the chargeback based on the fact the contract was cancelled because the goods were not received by the agreed delivery date. It is still a fact that the goods were not received in accordance with the contract terms and the OP could mention that. Nothing in the scheme rules that I'm aware of that says chargeback can only be made if the contact hasn't already been terminated, because that creates the anomaly that I've suggested above about repudiatory breach - it would be a catch 22 for the consumer.

born_again

A_Geordie said:

You are requesting the chargeback based on the fact the contract was cancelled because the goods were not received by the agreed delivery date. It is still a fact that the goods were not received in accordance with the contract terms and the OP could mention that. Nothing in the scheme rules that I'm aware of that says chargeback can only be made if the contact hasn't already been terminated, because that creates the anomaly that I've suggested above about repudiatory breach - it would be a catch 22 for the consumer.

You are missing the point.
A chargeback does not cancel the contract. It is only claiming the funds back on the basis of non delivery.

Just the same as cancelling a DD does not cancel a contract.

Look at it this way. If you cancel a contract (if you can) then you are telling a retailer you do not want the goods & the retailer will not have to deliver them. 
So how in that case can you claim non receipt of goods?

A_Geordie

Maybe I am missing the point you're trying to make.

A chargeback claim for on non-receipt of goods will be based on a breach of contract by the seller. Cancellation for breach of contract for non-receipt of goods is no different, if the seller refuses to refund the consumer it becomes a disputed charge and the chargeback option becomes available. The evidence remains the same in that the consumer evidences their termination and the retailer will have to prove it was either delivered or the termination was invalid or the delivery date was not due.

As far as I can see, nothing within the scheme rules for chargebacks says that a consumer can only rely on non-receipt of goods if the contract hasn't been terminated. That would not only be illogical but also it would defeat the very object of the consumer being able to raise a chargeback based on non-receipt of goods for the reasons I gave earlier.

If we apply your train of thought and the contract must remain in force, the consumer would still be contractually obligated to make the payment. The refund from the chargeback would be the consumer showing their intention of breaching their obligation to pay and the retailer sues for repudiatory breach. The consumer has no defence and is left to pay for goods that they can't even own anymore because a repudiatory breach effectively discharges the retailer from performing their obligations to supply the goods, so the retailer keeps the goods and keeps the payment.

Therefore, the chargeback for on non-receipt would effectively be rendered useless since the consumer would never stand a chance of winning. Maybe I'm missing something you're trying to explain but if you can find something in the rules that says this chargeback reason is not accepted unless the contract hasn't been terminated, I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong.

[Deleted User]

Bizarrely, the contract isn't actually voided when a chargeback is claimed, or even when a chargeback is successful. Practically speaking it's all over, but legally the contract will still be in force. On the other hand, the seller could not reasonably force adherence to the contract at that point (by demanding payment again, or by delivering and then demanding payment), and reasonably neither could the buyer (by demanding the seller accept a second payment for the same item).