High Heat Retention storage heaters - Snake Oil?

JC_Derby

I don't need storage heaters - however im intrigued by these - my simple brain has understood that 1kw of electricity in = 1 kw of heat energy out for a long time. so how are these more efficient than older style storage heaters?
I know how i've worded my question here is biased. 
I expect the newer storage heaters release energy in a more efficient way??

Stubod

They simply have better insulation. 

They can therefore keep the heat "stored" for longer, then release it when you need it, usually by a fan.

Swipe

The only downside is they are about around £1K a pop. So if you have half a dozen old style boxes of bricks as I do, then the break even point would be many years down the line. The compromise would be to just replace the ones in the rooms where you require the most control. As I'm retired and home all day, I can't really justify the extra cost of them, and I prefer my heaters to leak slowly to keep me warm throughout the day and especially be warm when I first wake up. 

DullGreyGuy

JC_Derby said:

I don't need storage heaters - however im intrigued by these - my simple brain has understood that 1kw of electricity in = 1 kw of heat energy out for a long time. so how are these more efficient than older style storage heaters?
I know how i've worded my question here is biased. 
I expect the newer storage heaters release energy in a more efficient way??

Less that they release heat in a more efficient way but they are better insulated so can store it better so at 9pm when its getting chilli they arent already fully drained because they emptied during the day when the property was empty. 

Our old flat had vents on them but they made sweet FA difference. Modern ones, they claim, do actually work (to some degree at least)

EssexHebridean

They are definitely not snake oil and they can make a massive difference to the ease of heating a property and that property’s heating bills, too! While the usual “1kWh in = 1kWh out” rule is of course true, it’s like the difference between using a match to warm your hands over and using that same match to light one of those hand warmer sticks you can get to then out in a little metal case and warm your hands round! Being able to actually release the heat from the heater when you need it, rather than it “leaking” out while you’re not in and the place cooling down before you get home is a game changer! 

Newbie_John

It's also the cost. On normal rate you pay 25p/kWh, if you are on E7 tariff let's say your night rate from 0-7 is (it varies) let's say 9p and day rate becomes 35p - so in this case when they are topped up with heat at night it costs you 33% compared to a normal radiator running through the day on 25p rate.

That way they 3x more efficient.

If you use 5000kWh for heating then:
a) normal rate would cost you: £1250
b) heat stored at night (but released during day) on E7: £450
c) normal heater running during the day on E7: £1750

Scot_39

Electrical Efficiency is the same 1 kWh in = 1 kWh out.

Its the ability to control that stored energy release and let it out as needed that's the difference.  

But compared to old storage heaters - even a modern fan assisted lot 20 - which often shares some of the top end features - even if a little "leakier" - might well suit / work in many situations.

I nearly fitted Quantums a few years back before crisis, before the RF model - wish sometimes had as at peak prices that would have cut my e10 vs e7 payback calcs by years - but would now probably fit their standard XLE model or another sister company - the Creda TSRE sister co's lot 20 as home more often - and don't want to pay for the RF smart features /  additional cost of hub to get full zone control / remote etc.

At one online retailer - supply only - the large model Creda is nearer to £300 cheaper - and the smaller size I'd fit in my 2 halls - 100s/125s at a push - more like c£250. Add in the hub ad your looking at near £1000. But they do need dual wiring.  A quick flick at the manual - suspect the Creda controller features maybe more akin to older gen Quantums - but they seem a good cost / functionality compromise.

Sure you will likely find the same cost vs benefit issues - in likes of Elnurs (ECombi HHR also recommended by some here) or a. n. other manufacturers range. (I just didn't look too closely at Elnur range when learned I couldn't program in my 3 E10 off peak charge periods.)

JC_Derby

EssexHebridean said:

They are definitely not snake oil and they can make a massive difference to the ease of heating a property and that property’s heating bills, too! While the usual “1kWh in = 1kWh out” rule is of course true, it’s like the difference between using a match to warm your hands over and using that same match to light one of those hand warmer sticks you can get to then out in a little metal case and warm your hands round! Being able to actually release the heat from the heater when you need it, rather than it “leaking” out while you’re not in and the place cooling down before you get home is a game changer! 

Thank you. I think that in your example, hand warmers already contain an energy store that is released by a reaction caused by lighting them with the match - most of the match heat and light is wasted, the stick releases its own stored energy once it’s lit. However I can see if the release of the energy in the storage heaters can be altered I can see it’s more useful.
I just don’t see that the payback on these would be very quick, are they really £1k a heater?!

sorry this sounds a bit like I’m trolling it’s not meant too. Our lad is looking at flats at the moment that are electrically heated so I need to explain to him the how’s whys and wherefors.
thanks for the answers so far everyone.

Newbie_John

JC_Derby said:

EssexHebridean said:

They are definitely not snake oil and they can make a massive difference to the ease of heating a property and that property’s heating bills, too! While the usual “1kWh in = 1kWh out” rule is of course true, it’s like the difference between using a match to warm your hands over and using that same match to light one of those hand warmer sticks you can get to then out in a little metal case and warm your hands round! Being able to actually release the heat from the heater when you need it, rather than it “leaking” out while you’re not in and the place cooling down before you get home is a game changer! 

Thank you. I think that in your example, hand warmers already contain an energy store that is released by a reaction caused by lighting them with the match - most of the match heat and light is wasted, the stick releases its own stored energy once it’s lit. However I can see if the release of the energy in the storage heaters can be altered I can see it’s more useful.
I just don’t see that the payback on these would be very quick, are they really £1k a heater?!

sorry this sounds a bit like I’m trolling it’s not meant too. Our lad is looking at flats at the moment that are electrically heated so I need to explain to him the how’s whys and wherefors.
thanks for the answers so far everyone.

How many kWh did you use during January this year? Roughly multiply that by 5 and that would be your heating cost per year. Are you on E7 now or normal tariff? 

Gerry1

Note the difference between kW (power, a bit like speed) and kWh (energy, a bit like distance), you got it wrong in your original post.

Think of old style NSHs like a hot water bottle.  Starts nice and hot but it won't stay that way all day, it always leaks heat. Think of HHR NSHs like a vacuum flask   Fill it with hot tea in the morning and it'll still be hot in the afternoon.  You have to deliberately pour it out.

If it's a flat with no possibility of gas, oil, heatpump etc then HHR NSHs are about all that's realistic.  Perhaps cheap panel heaters (not the expensive German ones filled with moonrock) in the bedrooms if they are used only at bedtime and when getting up (no WFH).

Remember that even if it's not a 'forever' home, a bad choice now will make it fetch less when it's sold and it'll take longer.

EssexHebridean

It’s not all about the payback period either - when it comes to heating comfort and convenience is just as big a factor combined with ongoing costs.