Do i actually need a tv licence 🤔

Cornucopia

[Deleted User] said:

savergrant said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

you will need to declare 'no licence required' periodically - I think I do mine every 2 yrs roughly. 

You don't need to do it, it's not a legal requirement.   It's also not a "declaration" as such, because it doesn't have legal standing beyond its role in TV Licensing's administrative processes.  

Without wanting to get too strident on it, people with no need for a TV Licence are not answerable in law to TV Licensing/BBC.     That works both ways - anything you give (info, your time) is a favour to them, and anything they request from you is not legally required.

They already had my name & address from previously when I needed a TV licence. I did the declaration as part of the cancellation so they still have all my details and the letters start again after a period of time so it's just as easy to do it given it only takes seconds

I have a small round filing cabinet for the letters, or if I can be bothered, I send them back (it is free and lawful to do so).

There are several disadvantages to submitting the No Licence Needed (NLN) form:

- If they don't already have your name, it gives them that info.   

- If they subsequently form an evasion case against you, they will treat you more harshly if you had previously submitted NLN than not.   

- The Ts & Cs for NLN specify that you agree to them visiting.   Whilst this doesn't change the underlying rights to deal with them at the door, some people may find that more difficult as a consequence of that agreement.

- There are rumours that people submitting NLN may be more likely to receive a visit.   

- Since neither the letters, NLN or the visits are statutory, I kind of object to them using one to coerce the others.  

If you have had a licence and then cancel it they are more likely to be suspicious if you don't declare that you understand what you can and can't do without one.

People need to bear in mind that the BBC is a private company. Having the BBC 'suspicious' of you because you don't use their service is no more impactful than having Ocado 'suspicious' of you because you don't buy their bananas.

The very best advice is to have no interaction with BBC / TVL whatsoever. Certainly never contact them, never respond to their letters, never fill in any of their forms or give them any information, never open the door in the unlikely event one of them comes round and if by mistake you do, say nothing and close it immediately. 

Personally I like it when I receive my monthly threat letter from the BBC. I know I've wasted a tiny bit more of their money and am doing my bit for their hastened demise.

I agree with most of your post, but the BBC isn't a private company (i.e. it's not BBC ltd, or BBC plc).

It's technically incorporated under Royal Charter, and it's a public authority for some purposes.

[Deleted User]

Cornucopia said:

[Deleted User] said:

savergrant said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

you will need to declare 'no licence required' periodically - I think I do mine every 2 yrs roughly. 

You don't need to do it, it's not a legal requirement.   It's also not a "declaration" as such, because it doesn't have legal standing beyond its role in TV Licensing's administrative processes.  

Without wanting to get too strident on it, people with no need for a TV Licence are not answerable in law to TV Licensing/BBC.     That works both ways - anything you give (info, your time) is a favour to them, and anything they request from you is not legally required.

They already had my name & address from previously when I needed a TV licence. I did the declaration as part of the cancellation so they still have all my details and the letters start again after a period of time so it's just as easy to do it given it only takes seconds

I have a small round filing cabinet for the letters, or if I can be bothered, I send them back (it is free and lawful to do so).

There are several disadvantages to submitting the No Licence Needed (NLN) form:

- If they don't already have your name, it gives them that info.   

- If they subsequently form an evasion case against you, they will treat you more harshly if you had previously submitted NLN than not.   

- The Ts & Cs for NLN specify that you agree to them visiting.   Whilst this doesn't change the underlying rights to deal with them at the door, some people may find that more difficult as a consequence of that agreement.

- There are rumours that people submitting NLN may be more likely to receive a visit.   

- Since neither the letters, NLN or the visits are statutory, I kind of object to them using one to coerce the others.  

If you have had a licence and then cancel it they are more likely to be suspicious if you don't declare that you understand what you can and can't do without one.

People need to bear in mind that the BBC is a private company. Having the BBC 'suspicious' of you because you don't use their service is no more impactful than having Ocado 'suspicious' of you because you don't buy their bananas.

The very best advice is to have no interaction with BBC / TVL whatsoever. Certainly never contact them, never respond to their letters, never fill in any of their forms or give them any information, never open the door in the unlikely event one of them comes round and if by mistake you do, say nothing and close it immediately. 

Personally I like it when I receive my monthly threat letter from the BBC. I know I've wasted a tiny bit more of their money and am doing my bit for their hastened demise.

I agree with most of your post, but the BBC isn't a private company (i.e. it's not BBC ltd, or BBC plc).

It's technically incorporated under Royal Charter, and it's a public authority for some purposes.

That's true. I should have said it's a public corporation with no more powers than a private company.

mutley74

Cornucopia said:

mutley74 said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

you will need to declare 'no licence required' periodically - I think I do mine every 2 yrs roughly. 

You don't need to do it, it's not a legal requirement.   It's also not a "declaration" as such, because it doesn't have legal standing beyond its role in TV Licensing's administrative processes.  

Without wanting to get too strident on it, people with no need for a TV Licence are not answerable in law to TV Licensing/BBC.     That works both ways - anything you give (info, your time) is a favour to them, and anything they request from you is not legally required.

They already had my name & address from previously when I needed a TV licence. I did the declaration as part of the cancellation so they still have all my details and the letters start again after a period of time so it's just as easy to do it given it only takes seconds

I have a small round filing cabinet for the letters, or if I can be bothered, I send them back (it is free and lawful to do so).

There are several disadvantages to submitting the No Licence Needed (NLN) form:

- If they don't already have your name, it gives them that info.   

- If they subsequently form an evasion case against you, they will treat you more harshly if you had previously submitted NLN than not.   

- The Ts & Cs for NLN specify that you agree to them visiting.   Whilst this doesn't change the underlying rights to deal with them at the door, some people may find that more difficult as a consequence of that agreement.

- There are rumours that people submitting NLN may be more likely to receive a visit.   

- Since neither the letters, NLN or the visits are statutory, I kind of object to them using one to coerce the others.  

I last did a NLN online assessment in 2024 which states on the email it was valid until June 26. 
Some reason I now had 2 letters demanding a TVL this year.  When reads the letters is almost intimidating as well not clearly written as if to catch anyone out even if they dont watch live TV or the BBCi. 

Another problem with "No Licence Needed" - that TVL make the rules, including setting the duration.   Even within their own policy documents, they have different durations for addresses they deem as "student", other residential and business.

It feels more like harassment. Keep sending me letters intimidating one to probably think "easier to pay" to get them off your backs.  Even the questions to check if you need a license, are not very clear, almost designed to catch one out too.  

Cornucopia

mutley74 said:

Cornucopia said:

mutley74 said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

Cornucopia said:

Dobbibill said:

you will need to declare 'no licence required' periodically - I think I do mine every 2 yrs roughly. 

You don't need to do it, it's not a legal requirement.   It's also not a "declaration" as such, because it doesn't have legal standing beyond its role in TV Licensing's administrative processes.  

Without wanting to get too strident on it, people with no need for a TV Licence are not answerable in law to TV Licensing/BBC.     That works both ways - anything you give (info, your time) is a favour to them, and anything they request from you is not legally required.

They already had my name & address from previously when I needed a TV licence. I did the declaration as part of the cancellation so they still have all my details and the letters start again after a period of time so it's just as easy to do it given it only takes seconds

I have a small round filing cabinet for the letters, or if I can be bothered, I send them back (it is free and lawful to do so).

There are several disadvantages to submitting the No Licence Needed (NLN) form:

- If they don't already have your name, it gives them that info.   

- If they subsequently form an evasion case against you, they will treat you more harshly if you had previously submitted NLN than not.   

- The Ts & Cs for NLN specify that you agree to them visiting.   Whilst this doesn't change the underlying rights to deal with them at the door, some people may find that more difficult as a consequence of that agreement.

- There are rumours that people submitting NLN may be more likely to receive a visit.   

- Since neither the letters, NLN or the visits are statutory, I kind of object to them using one to coerce the others.  

I last did a NLN online assessment in 2024 which states on the email it was valid until June 26. 
Some reason I now had 2 letters demanding a TVL this year.  When reads the letters is almost intimidating as well not clearly written as if to catch anyone out even if they dont watch live TV or the BBCi. 

Another problem with "No Licence Needed" - that TVL make the rules, including setting the duration.   Even within their own policy documents, they have different durations for addresses they deem as "student", other residential and business.

It feels more like harassment. Keep sending me letters intimidating one to probably think "easier to pay" to get them off your backs.  Even the questions to check if you need a license, are not very clear, almost designed to catch one out too.  

The thing about TV Licensing is that the rabbit-hole goes quite deep.   For something that really ought to be both simple and clear so that the entire population can readily understand and comply, it is very very complicated, and substantial amounts of information are kept hidden from the Public, including much that is hidden in plain sight.

One of those nuances is the question of harassment.   Because TVL isn't a statutory body, and its main enforcement activities are not statutory activities, its routine activities can be ignored.   So, although some people probably do feel harassed, it's also true that the harassment can be ignored, which tends to undermine its harassment effect. 

I should say, also, that this curious situation makes life very difficult for media organisations and politicians - just how far are they going to go down the rabbit-hole in the face of an "organisation" that appears, superficially, to be very simple to understand.  

FreeBear

mutley74 said: Some reason I now had 2 letters demanding a TVL this year.  When reads the letters is almost intimidating as well not clearly written as if to catch anyone out even if they dont watch live TV or the BBCi.

Wow. You actually read the letters ????

I just take a look at the return address and chuck the letter on the pile without even opening it.

silverwhistle

[Deleted User] said:

Personally I like it when I receive my monthly threat letter from the BBC. I know I've wasted a tiny bit more of their money and am doing my bit for their hastened demise.

I have no wish for their demise, Radio 3 and 4 are a constant on my radio, and they obviously make some decent TV programmes too. As a pensioner who has never owned a colour TV I'm aware of that. Mind you I'm also aware that they employ Laura Kuensberg and had some pretty dodgy reporting of the Zelensky/Trump meeting.

Fortunately they think that I am called The Occupier, and at this time of year their missves have been useful for stove lighting duties.