Newbie help please - PCN for overnight stay at Ashton Moss Metrolink

this_is_parking_madness

ChirpyChicken said:

this_is_parking_madness said:

Coupon-mad said:

Just ignore Ocean. Ignore the laughable £270 threatograms too (see the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread).

All the time this greedy industry remans unregulated and there is NO FAIR APPEAL, there's no point engaging with IPC firms.

Thanks Coupon-mad. Am I correct in thinking it is then process from the 2nd post on the newbie thread? In which case, what am is the actual grounds on which it is contested, based on their photographic evidence? 

you have been advised to ignore yet you asking about an appeal, why when the advice is to ignore.

The newbie thread suggests to appeal upon receipt of the postal PCN? Beyond the immediate advice on that I'm not sure where I'm asking about appealing - it certainly wasn't intended if I did, so apologies for any confusion. When i say 'contested' above, it is referring to the process in the 2nd post of the newbie forum following receipt of an Letter Before Claim.

this_is_parking_madness

Gr1pr said:

Their photographic evidence is by MNPR, a person onsite with a camera 

Signage will dictate various terms and conditions imposed upon drivers,  plus forbidding terms, such as No Parking overnight etc, which is what I suspect is the reason for the private PCN by Ocean being issued 

I suspect that the land is leased from Tameside Council,  by Metrolink or similar,  so probably not relevant land under POFA schedule 4

Regardless,  no appeal will have legs with either Ocean Parking or the subsequent IAS,, hence the advice to Ignore 

I think that you are expecting technical arguments to win at appeal stages,  definitely not going to happen here,  nor will landowner complaints ( despite the usual replies here of complaining to the landowner,  it's not going to work due to the nature of the tram contracts etc  )

The advice to ignore is because no appeal or complaint will work

Thank you Gr1pr, 

But when the time comes to not ignore, does the below become a requirement re gathering of evidence? In which case unfortunately its a 4hr round trip to obtain it.

Gr1pr

Regardless of actual pictures of the signs,  it's clear that there is no overnight parking by looking at the Bee network website for that location 

https://tfgm.com/ways-to-travel/park-and-ride/ashton-moss-tram

I am certain that the Ocean Parking signs will reflect the same terms and conditions,  no parking after 01:00 am

So restricted from 1am until 5am

Overnight parking available: No

Terms and conditions for Park & Ride permitted car parking hours:

1. These terms and conditions are applicable for the following Park & Ride sites: Brooklands, Stretford, Navigation Road, Bury, Crumpsall, Prestwich, Radcliffe, Whitefield, East Didsbury, Ladywell, Parkway, Hollinwood, Oldham Mumps, Rochdale Rail Station, Derker and Shaw and Crompton stops.

2. The following extended hours will apply for permitted parking:
   a) Customers parking a vehicle on a Friday will have to remove it before 12 noon on Saturday; and
   b) Customers parking a vehicle on a Saturday will have to remove it before 12 noon on Sunday.

3. All customers must remove their vehicles before the end of the tram services on Sunday to Thursday.

4. Customers must note that they are not permitted to park a vehicle continuously for the duration of the weekend.

5. The car parks included will be monitored and parking charge notices issued for vehicles identified as being in breach of the above terms and conditions.

6. All vehicles and property are left in the carparks at their owners risk and no liability will be accepted for damage, loss or theft.

7. Metrolink reserves the right to change or update its Park & Ride terms and conditions at any time. This includes the right to withdraw any or all sites without notice.

8. Customers must note that not all Metrolink Park & Ride sites are included. The sites not included will be subject to the usual terms and conditions which state that Metrolink Park & Ride facilities are only available to Metrolink customers during the hours of service and overnight parking is not permitted. Please refer to signage within the parking facilities for the usual terms and conditions of usage.

Customers who have any queries in relation to the terms and conditions for permitted parking can contact TfGM Customer Services telephone line on 0161 205 2000 or email hello@beenetwork.com.

this_is_parking_madness

Gr1pr said:

Regardless of actual pictures of the signs,  it's clear that there is no overnight parking by looking at the Bee network website for that location 



I am certain that the Ocean Parking signs will reflect the same terms and conditions,  no parking after 01:00 am

So restricted from 1am until 5am

Overnight parking available: No

Noted. So what are the grounds (if any) to not pay this?

Gr1pr

Perhaps forbidding signage,  no overnight parking contract on offer,  so no offer,  no consideration,  no contract,  possible trespass   ?  No keeper lliability under Schedule 4 of POFA if its not relevant land   ?

I will try and link the GSV picture of the entrance signage below 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/4AmYNBHd9oAyzDRN6?g_st=ac

I suspect that the landowner may be Tameside Council and leased to Metrolink via TfGM, all part of Burnhams Bee Network 

ChirpyChicken

Again you have already been told to ignore

this_is_parking_madness

ChirpyChicken said:

Again you have already been told to ignore

Until such time that action is required (LBC)? Which is what am now not clear on?

ChirpyChicken

lbc/court claim yes, now just forget it , if you move address inform the parking company

Coupon-mad

Typo in my earlier reply should of course read '£170 threatograms'.

No 'grounds' needed.

There won't be a court claim. Ignore.

LDast

If the location is indeed not relevant land, then get a formal complaint in to Ocean and start a paper trail as to why they have issued an NtK quoting PoFA keeper liability in breach of the PPSCoP section 8.1.1(d) which states:

The parking operator must not serve a notice which in its design and/or language: state the keeper is liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 where they cannot be held liable.

This will then allow you to submit a complaint to the DVLA that Ocean have breached their KADOE contract and should have their access to DVLA data withdrawn.

Certainly since the new PPSCoP came out, almost every single operator is in breach of the PPSCoP and every recipient should make a formal complaint about these breaches because a breach of the PPSCoP is a breach of KADOE. If the DVLA then receives notice of these formal complaints highlighting the numerous breaches of the KADOE contract, they will, eventually, be forced to answer what they are not doing anything about it.