Freezing house | How to improve heat

Typhoon2000

TRVs whilst better than nothing, are not the best at measuring room temperature. They measure the temperature by the radiator and may not reflect the room temperature depending on the location on the TRV and furniture etc.
Ideally you want a thermostat in all the main rooms controlling the temperature in that room only ( not just a single thermostat in the hallway or somewhere else). There will be no need to turn the heating on and off at the boiler, you just set the temperature you want at different times of the day for each room and the leave the boiler to come on and off as required. You can set how cold you want your bedroom to get at night. You can set lower temperatures for other rooms so only the bedroom gets heated. This is the most efficient way. I don’t know if Hive will let you do that, but other systems do.

FreeBear

I'd suggest some of these to monitor temperature & humidity -> https://buy.mi.com/uk/item/3204500023 - Shop around, and you can often find them for less than £5 each, especially if you buy 4 or 5 at a time (just watch out for knockoffs). You can get an app for your phone to record the temperature over time.

As for the TRVs, I'd recommend turning them all up to max. This will enable your boiler to pump heat to all the radiators all the time. Unless you have a boiler that will modulate down to a very low level, it will help to reduce short cycling (bad for efficiency). In addition, heating all the rooms up will stop the cold ones robbing heat from the warmer ones.

With the radiators getting so hot that you can't keep your hand on them for any length of time suggests that you have the boiler set to 70°C or hotter - Ideally, you want to run the boiler at 60°C to ensure that it is running in condensing mode. Less white "smoke" coming out of the exhaust, and a big jump in efficiency which will cut your gas bill down.

If the house isn't heating up at a reasonable rate (I aim for 1-1.5°C per hour), then I'd suggest running your room sizes through a heat loss calculator such as this one from Stelrad. See what radiator sizes it suggests for each room, and if necessary replace some of your old ones - If you are going to the expense of replacing radiators, aim to oversize them by 30-50% on the numbers Stelrad suggest.

Loft insulation is a cheap & easy upgrade - Recommended levels is 270-300mm of fibreglass or rockwool. But 200mm should be regarded as the minimum.

If you want to nail down exactly where you are losing heat, get a thermographic survey done (or hire/borrow a thermal imaging camera). That will reveal where you are losing most heat, and you can concentrate on tackling the high loss areas - Replacing the front door will certainly be an improvement (made a big difference when I did mine).

For the record, I have a late 1920s semi that for a long while, was difficult to heat. After making quite a few thermal upgrades and replacing the 1970/80s heating system, I can now get the place warm. In the process, cut gas consumption from 8,000+kWh down to under 3000kWh. January was the most expensive month of this winter at just shy of £50, but £75 wouldn't have been too bad compared with neighbours.

Albermarle

I could control the temperature by having it on an hour before I got up and now before bed as I can control it via Hive, but I don’t have it on in the mornings to try and save money. we both work shifts so never really have any set times however when we do have it on we try limited to the evening. 

Apart from the technical hints, I think the most obvious thing is the heating is not on for long enough each day, especially during the recent cold spell. So the structure of the house is getting cold, as the heating can be off for up to 20 hours at a time.
As said £75 per month for gas is very low for the Winter months. Probably what you would expect in a studio flat maybe.

ThisIsWeird

Arsenal2019 said:

Hello again!
yeah that’s what I thought too. The results didn’t look too bad in my eyes as well.  I have the heating on and the radiator is on in each room in the house purely to keep each room warm to minimise the risk of condensation/damp. All rooms are used obviously some more than others.
I’ll have a look at buying that smoke stuff today and in a few days I will give it a go and get back to you. Thanks again

Oookkkaaayy! You need to heat your house properly! And that means to not heat rooms that don't need it!

You won't get condie as long as you ventilate these rooms properly. You are currently undoubtedly wasting gas, possibly a fair amount.

Bedrooms: set them to heat the bedroom around half-hour (more if needed) before folk jump into bed, and off as soon as they touch the sheets. Keep warm overnight by using thick duvets, and an overnight leccy blanket if really needed. Time the bedrooms to warm up before folk wake up, so it's pleasant. At all other times - all day, most of the evening, overnight - rads off, or set to TRV '1' (ie, pretty much 'off'). Crack open the windows to 'vent', and leave the doors closed. If you go in there during the day, yes it'll be bludy cold, but it will also be dry. And you won't be wasting heat.

Ditto for all other rooms.

Focus on the 'living' areas, and make these comfy for all. But, also dress appropriately, and even be prepared to drape a blanket over yer legs as you watch telly - we do.

Arsenal2019

HHarry said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Your Hive screenshots aren't that bad, Arsenal? Your house does appear to warm up when you have the heating on long enough, and high bills over winter is to be expected - they should drop dramatically very soon.

 Have to agree with this. £75 / mth on gas in the middle of winter doesn’t sound horrendous.  By the time you’ve allowed for next to no useage in the summer, that’s going to average out to maybe £40-50 / mth over a year.

Very very true I suppose. However both me and my partner works shift work and so are very rarely in the house and a lot of the time when we are we sit in the Cold wrapped up and not putting on the heating

Arsenal2019

Typhoon2000 said:

TRVs whilst better than nothing, are not the best at measuring room temperature. They measure the temperature by the radiator and may not reflect the room temperature depending on the location on the TRV and furniture etc.
Ideally you want a thermostat in all the main rooms controlling the temperature in that room only ( not just a single thermostat in the hallway or somewhere else). There will be no need to turn the heating on and off at the boiler, you just set the temperature you want at different times of the day for each room and the leave the boiler to come on and off as required. You can set how cold you want your bedroom to get at night. You can set lower temperatures for other rooms so only the bedroom gets heated. This is the most efficient way. I don’t know if Hive will let you do that, but other systems do.

Very good suggestion. I’ve had a look on my Hive and can’t find this. This may be because I don’t pay the monthly sub- of they may just not offer this 

Arsenal2019

FreeBear said:

I'd suggest some of these to monitor temperature & humidity -> https://buy.mi.com/uk/item/3204500023 - Shop around, and you can often find them for less than £5 each, especially if you buy 4 or 5 at a time (just watch out for knockoffs). You can get an app for your phone to record the temperature over time.

As for the TRVs, I'd recommend turning them all up to max. This will enable your boiler to pump heat to all the radiators all the time. Unless you have a boiler that will modulate down to a very low level, it will help to reduce short cycling (bad for efficiency). In addition, heating all the rooms up will stop the cold ones robbing heat from the warmer ones.

With the radiators getting so hot that you can't keep your hand on them for any length of time suggests that you have the boiler set to 70°C or hotter - Ideally, you want to run the boiler at 60°C to ensure that it is running in condensing mode. Less white "smoke" coming out of the exhaust, and a big jump in efficiency which will cut your gas bill down.

If the house isn't heating up at a reasonable rate (I aim for 1-1.5°C per hour), then I'd suggest running your room sizes through a heat loss calculator such as this one from Stelrad. See what radiator sizes it suggests for each room, and if necessary replace some of your old ones - If you are going to the expense of replacing radiators, aim to oversize them by 30-50% on the numbers Stelrad suggest.

Loft insulation is a cheap & easy upgrade - Recommended levels is 270-300mm of fibreglass or rockwool. But 200mm should be regarded as the minimum.

If you want to nail down exactly where you are losing heat, get a thermographic survey done (or hire/borrow a thermal imaging camera). That will reveal where you are losing most heat, and you can concentrate on tackling the high loss areas - Replacing the front door will certainly be an improvement (made a big difference when I did mine).

For the record, I have a late 1920s semi that for a long while, was difficult to heat. After making quite a few thermal upgrades and replacing the 1970/80s heating system, I can now get the place warm. In the process, cut gas consumption from 8,000+kWh down to under 3000kWh. January was the most expensive month of this winter at just shy of £50, but £75 wouldn't have been too bad compared with neighbours.

Hi/ thanks for the reply 

ive bought myself four of those thermostat / temperature stands and they arrived yesterday. 

I’ll have a play around with the boiler too. You’re right it was set up at a higher temperature so I shall look to turn it down to your suggested temperature and monitor that.

the radiators do seem to work quite well in all fairness. There is however radiator covers on two of them but have lots of gaps in them. Do we think that they are a barrier to me getting heat, or does it not affect it so much?

the house to seem to warm up fairly quickly it is just when the heating is not on the house is freezing so it’s more so tips how to make the house warmer/retain the warmth when the heating on. I’ll have a look at one of those heat guns as you and another suggested this this may help me find out where the coldest spots are

Arsenal2019

ThisIsWeird said:

Arsenal2019 said:

Hello again!
yeah that’s what I thought too. The results didn’t look too bad in my eyes as well.  I have the heating on and the radiator is on in each room in the house purely to keep each room warm to minimise the risk of condensation/damp. All rooms are used obviously some more than others.
I’ll have a look at buying that smoke stuff today and in a few days I will give it a go and get back to you. Thanks again

Oookkkaaayy! You need to heat your house properly! And that means to not heat rooms that don't need it!

You won't get condie as long as you ventilate these rooms properly. You are currently undoubtedly wasting gas, possibly a fair amount.

Bedrooms: set them to heat the bedroom around half-hour (more if needed) before folk jump into bed, and off as soon as they touch the sheets. Keep warm overnight by using thick duvets, and an overnight leccy blanket if really needed. Time the bedrooms to warm up before folk wake up, so it's pleasant. At all other times - all day, most of the evening, overnight - rads off, or set to TRV '1' (ie, pretty much 'off'). Crack open the windows to 'vent', and leave the doors closed. If you go in there during the day, yes it'll be bludy cold, but it will also be dry. And you won't be wasting heat.

Ditto for all other rooms.

Focus on the 'living' areas, and make these comfy for all. But, also dress appropriately, and even be prepared to drape a blanket over yer legs as you watch telly - we do.

Yeah I will start turning off the radiators in the rooms which are not used as much. I guess that way I could focus on the rooms which are used and potentially have the heating on for longer in those rooms too. Mrs. Is always freezing so I’ll just buy her another blanket to add to the collection

ThisIsWeird

Typhoon's suggestion of extra thermostats is 'ideal', but would be costly. You can get Smart Hive TRVs, and they will give great control, but they are £40+ each to fit.

I picked one up on t'Bay for that, and have it on the main bedroom rad. Saves me having to turn it on and off for the short periods it's needed - just before bed, and before wakie bedtimes. All automatic, and easily overridable.

Kids are away at the mo', so both their bedrooms are completely unheated, but have their windows cracked open to 'vent'. It's bludy cold in there, but bone dry.

Don't suffer the cold. Be reasonably comfy. Don't forget your bills are going to drop very soon - winter is nearly over.

All the best

Oh, please update us on any findings re leaky windows and insulation - it's all helpful stuff. 

FreeBear

Arsenal2019 said: the radiators do seem to work quite well in all fairness. There is however radiator covers on two of them but have lots of gaps in them. Do we think that they are a barrier to me getting heat, or does it not affect it so much?

the house to seem to warm up fairly quickly it is just when the heating is not on the house is freezing so it’s more so tips how to make the house warmer/retain the warmth when the heating on.

The radiator covers will restrict air flow and reduce the ability for the room to heat up. But how much effect one has, I wouldn't like to say either way - I'd suggest removing the cover and see if it makes a noticeable difference.

My house heats up at a rate of ~1C per hour, and depending on the temperature outside, 3-4 hours to drop 1°C. I have my (smarter) thermostat set for a minimum temperature of 16°C 24/7, and 18.5-19°C first thing and the same in the evening. I haven't seen the heating kick in at all overnight, and will run for 1.5-2 hours in the morning. Depending on the amount of solar gain if/when the sun is shining, maybe an hour or two in the evening. The key for me is not to let the house get so cold that the heating needs to run all day to get from freezing to a comfortable temperature.

Once you have built up a picture of how long your house takes to heat up and (more importantly) cool down, it is a strategy that you might want to try - Having thermometer and an app to record temperature fluctuations is the first step.

I've got a smart home automation system that records temperatures, humidity, and a whole bunch of information from the boiler (amongst other things), so can see fairly quickly if changes are an improvement or not. Graph from Tuesday when we had a bit of sunshine..