UC and upcoming retirement - advice needed please

Carefulspender1

I wonder if anyone can help…My partner and I are gainfully self employed but our transitional period of UC ends in April. From that point onwards we will be expected to earn the MIF calculated by UC which we haven't earned for years. I will reach retirement age in July and intend to take my state pension then. My partner has another 5 years before retirement and to be honest is unlikely to reach anywhere near the MIF so will no doubt be told to find other work. I wondered if anyone on here could answer a few questions I have about our position, as we asked my partners work coach and they were very vague as to what would happen. I have my work coach interview next week and want to be fully informed before I see them. My questions are:

Can UC insist that I find a job during the 3 months between April and my retirement in July?

My ability to work the hours I did before the pandemic has been severely hampered by back problems and severe anxiety which my GP is aware of. I have never mentioned this to UC but wonder if I should and what steps they would then take?

I understand that once I receive my state pension it is considered 100% income (as opposed to the 55% for any s/e earnings) therefore we would not get any UC benefits – is this correct?

If my partner agrees to look for other work will they be forced to attend training courses etc in those three months until my retirement (when we will not qualify for UC because of my state pension) in order to find other work?

I had some very helpful advice here when I was migrated to UC back in April 2024 so I’m hoping that you can help me again, many thanks.

Rubyroobs

If your partner has paid enough NI contributions in the past 2-3 years and will be job searching he could potentially look at claiming new style ( Contributions based JSA ) instead of Uc when your Uc claim ends. 
Whether your UC claim ends completely will depend on your total UC award. State pension deductions are calculated by multiplying weekly state pension amount x 52 then dividing by 12.
I guess whether your work coach insists you look for work for those three months will be at their discretion. If neither of you are working then you may both be expected to job search.  You can hand in sick notes if you wish.

Carefulspender1

Rubyroobs said:

If your partner has paid enough NI contributions in the past 2-3 years and will be job searching he could potentially look at claiming new style ( Contributions based JSA ) instead of Uc when your Uc claim ends. 
Whether your UC claim ends completely will depend on your total UC award. State pension deductions are calculated by multiplying weekly state pension amount x 52 then dividing by 12.
I guess whether your work coach insists you look for work for those three months will be at their discretion. If neither of you are working then you may both be expected to job search.  You can hand in sick notes if you wish.

As neither of us earned enough last year we were exempted from paying NI...having paid it for nearly 50 years I didn't realise you couldn't claim JSA if you weren't working and didn't pay NI in the current year - wow! Thanks for letting me know that Rubyroobs. I think my biggest worry is whether they're going to force me to look for work (as I wont be earning enough from self employment for those three months) because of some UC rule - are work coaches guided by anything? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

NedS

Once your start up period ends in April, they will apply the MIF to your claim. If you are not earning the MIF, they will calculate your UC payment as if you were earning that amount. This means your UC payment will reduce or maybe even stop depending on how much you are currently getting and how much it may reduce by. They will not be asking you to look for work - they have already decided you are both gainfully self employed and they will leave you alone to get on with that self-employment. So no concerns about being asked or forced to look for work.

Once you reach State Pension Age - assuming you still have a UC payment at that point, the claim remains open and as you say your state pension (and any other pensions which you must tell UC about) will be deducted in full from any UC award that you have (although there will be no deduction for your MIF/earnings at this point as you are now retired, unless you continue working and have some self-employed earnings which would still be taken into account). With a full state pension being close to £1000/month after April, unless you are receiving this amount in UC, receipt of your state pension will effectively end your UC payments at that point.

Carefulspender1

NedS said:

Once your start up period ends in April, they will apply the MIF to your claim. If you are not earning the MIF, they will calculate your UC payment as if you were earning that amount. This means your UC payment will reduce or maybe even stop depending on how much you are currently getting and how much it may reduce by. They will not be asking you to look for work - they have already decided you are both gainfully self employed and they will leave you alone to get on with that self-employment. So no concerns about being asked or forced to look for work.

Thanks for your reply Ned.
My partner's work coach told us that if the earnings weren't meeting the MIF we would not be deemed as gainfully self employed any longer and it would be advisable for my partner to look for work part time. Are you able to say if the work coach could then force my partner to do training or go to interviews for work not suited? Also as this is the case could UC also insist I look for other work? Any thoughts?

Newcad

I think that your Work Coach is trying to tell you what to do for the best - but they can't say it straight out because they are not supposed to give benefit advice, just help you find a job (yeah right).

So:

You will reach State Pension Age in July, your partner has another 5 years to SPA.
If you are claiming UC that makes you a Mixed Age Couple and UC continues until both of you are SPA.

In the meantime your pension will be being deducted in full from you UC entitlement as a couple.
However in April (before you reach SPA) you expect to go onto MIF and expect that will wipe out your UC.
In which case when you do reach SPA it can't be wiped out any more than the zero that it is already at because of MIF.
It feels a bit strange to say this, (and no doubt your WC feels the same) - but I'd say drop the self employment altogether so that the MIF is no longer in play, I think that is what the WC is trying to tell you, (I have no idea how hard or easy to do that may be with UC?).
Once you are no longer SE then accept any conditionality (look for jobs etc) that UC apply until you reach SPA in July,  (from what you say then I don't think that your WC will apply much conditionality at all).
Then if your pension does wipe out UC simply close the UC claim. If you are not getting paid any UC anyway then why do UC conditionality?
Of course that does leave your partner with no UC and no pension yet, so you will be dependent on your pension; but that's going to be more than the UC that you were getting anyway or it wouldn't have wiped out the UC.
Once the UC claim is closed then you can do whatever SE you, or your partner, want to do again.
You won't be claiming UC so what you do has nothing whatsoever to do with them.

NedS

It's probably worth asking / understanding how much UC you get now, how much your respective MIFs are, and how much state pension (and any other private/occupational pensions) you expect to receive in July, as much of any advice may be totally irrelevant if your pension income is going to totally wipe any entitlement to UC in July anyway.

But as @Newcad says, you can at least try to manage the period between April and July to maximise and benefits you may be entitled to.

And I agree with @Newcad that your Work Coach may be trying to "help" you by suggesting you may like to instead look for work as ending the gainful self-employment may extend the period you can claim (or rather receive and award of) UC, even if you have to engage/look for work.

Carefulspender1

Newcad said:

I think that your Work Coach is trying to tell you what to do for the best - but they can't say it straight out because they are not supposed to give benefit advice, just help you find a job (yeah right).

So:

You will reach State Pension Age in July, your partner has another 5 years to SPA.
If you are claiming UC that makes you a Mixed Age Couple and UC continues until both of you are SPA.

In the meantime your pension will be being deducted in full from you UC entitlement as a couple.
However in April (before you reach SPA) you expect to go onto MIF and expect that will wipe out your UC.
In which case when you do reach SPA it can't be wiped out any more than the zero that it is already at because of MIF.
It feels a bit strange to say this, (and no doubt your WC feels the same) - but I'd say drop the self employment so that the MIF is no longer in play, (I have no idea how hard or easy to do that may be with UC?)
Accept any conditionality (look for jobs etc) that UC apply until you reach SPA in July,  (from what you say then I don't think that your WC will apply much conditionality at all).
Then if your pension does wipe out UC simply close the UC claim. If you are not getting paid any UC anyway then why do UC conditionality?
Of course that does leave your partner with no UC and no pension yet, so you will be dependant on your pension; but that's more than the UC that you were getting anyway.
Once the UC claim is closed then you can do whatever SE you, or your partner, want to do again.
You won't be claiming UC so what you do has nothing whatsoever to do with them.

What you say makes so much sense Newcad. Taking the view that we will both look for work in the 3 months until my retirement sounds like a good option...I mean, how many hoops can they expect us to jump through in a job search for 3 months! My partner was going to look for a pt job from August anyway so maybe this is the answer.

Carefulspender1

NedS said:

It's probably worth asking / understanding how much UC you get now, how much your respective MIFs are, and how much state pension (and any other private/occupational pensions) you expect to receive in July, as much of any advice may be totally irrelevant if your pension income is going to totally wipe any entitlement to UC in July anyway.

But as @Newcad says, you can at least try to manage the period between April and July to maximise and benefits you may be entitled to.

And I agree with @Newcad that your Work Coach may be trying to "help" you by suggesting you may like to instead look for work as ending the gainful self-employment may extend the period you can claim (or rather receive and award of) UC, even if you have to engage/look for work.

Thanks for your help Ned - I know that the state pension plus a very small private pension will wipe out the UC so it's really just managing things until July. I just wondered if there were any rules that said if someone was retiring within 3 months they wouldn't be forced to seek work - but there doesn't seem to be any rule for this.  

Newcad

LOL, I myself am 65 next week so just 12 months off SPA.

On thing I've learned as a benefits claimant - Be nice to your Work Coach. Make their job easier and they will make things easier for you.

I'm LCW and had a Work Focused Interview with my WC last Monday, I have one every 3 months, she knows the craic and so sets up a tickbox To-Do task, I tick the boxes, keeps the UC computer happy.
This time it was to fill in my qualifications and work experience, how I would travel to a job if I got one, etc,
Ten minutes ticking boxes, conditionality / Work Related Activities done for another 3-months.

Then the best one - as I was leaving I mentioned I was thinking about a Budgting Advance.
"I can sort that out for you, you want the full amount, repay over 24 months yes?"
Err, I reach SPA and so will be off UC in 12 months.
"Pfftt, take the  24 months for lower repayments now, Debt Management will just ask you to set up a payment plan when your UC ends"
Don't you want to know why I'm asking for an advance?
"Doesn't bother us unless you have an addiction marker on your claim, whatever you spend it on you have to pay it back."
Fair enough, Budgeting Advance approved there and then, money went in the bank at midnight last night and I ordered a new laptop this morning.

Carefulspender1

Newcad said:

LOL, I myself am 65 next week so just 12 months off SPA.

On thing I've learned as a benefits claimant - Be nice to your Work Coach. Make their job easier and they will make things easier for you.

I'm LCW and had a Work Focused Interview with my WC last Monday, I have one every 3 months, she knows the craic and so sets up a tickbox To-Do task, I tick the boxes, keeps the UC computer happy.
This time it was to fill in my qualifications and work experience, how I would travel to a job if I got one, etc,
Ten minutes ticking boxes, conditionality / Work Related Activities done for another 3-months.

Then the best one - as I was leaving I mentioned I was thinking about a Budgting Advance for a new laptop.
"I can sort that out for you, you want the full amount, repay over 24 months yes?"
Err, I reach SPA and so will be off UC in 12 months.
"Pfftt, take the  24 months for lower repayments now, Debt Management will just ask you to set up a payment plan when your UC ends"
Fair enough, Advance approved there and then, money went in the bank at midnight last night and I ordered a new laptop this morning.

  oh my goodness what a system!  Maybe I shouldn't be so worried - I think I can cope with 3 months of ticking boxes. It would feel a bit more daunting if I had a year left but it sounds as though you've got the right approach. My work coach appointment has been changed 3 times by them with 3 different people allocated to me so there isn't any consistency but I'll give it a go on my appointment to create a good working relationship with them. Thanks agaiin Newcad youve been very helpful.