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Putting containers of water in freezer

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  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 49,513 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Academoney Grad Name Dropper
    Section62 said:
    In very simple terms, it takes a lot more energy to keep air cold than it does to keep a more solid object cold. 
    Is it a fact, not an urban myth? I don't see any physics behind this.
    The fact is the opposite - the specific heat of water is about 4 times that of air.
    The only real difference between a full and an empty freezer is that that the compressor has to kick in more frequently, but for shorter times. This saves the compressor, not the energy.

    If the freezer door is a perfect seal and stays shut then the 'cold' loss through the cabinet will be more or less the same whether the freezer is full or half empty.  So the amount of work done by the compressor should be about the same in either case.

    Opening the door is what makes a difference.  Assuming no contents are added or taken from the freezer, the result of opening the door is that some of the previously cold air will be replaced by some warmer air.  The compressor then has to run to cool that air (and contents if the air has warmed them up as well) back down to the set temperature.  It follows that the more warm air that gets in, the more work needs to be done by the compressor to get everything cold again.
    If you aren’t taking out or putting anything in the freezer, why open the door? 

    Keep a list or take pictures when you put things in the freezer, so you know what is in there. Then you can avoid opening the door unnecessarily. 

    Minimising the length of time the door is open is probably the greatest saving.
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  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,935 Forumite
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    Tee-hee.
    The £avings from having the space filled with water bottles will be minimal, and the water will require more energy to freeze it in the first place.
    Where is wins, tho', is as said by others - it takes up volume, so less cold air is lost each time the door is opened. No, not because it's a 'battery', 'cos a battery - the water bottles -  would needs recharging each time. Just simply 'less air' to lose. 
    Yes, it would act as a battery should the door be left open for a long period accidentally, or should the freezer fail, so that would be a useful feature, but the 'battery' would need recharging again, so consuming the lost energy.
    So, for some very minor overall savings - depending on how often you open your freezer door - coupled with the back-up it could provide in the event of a power failure, then fill yer boots.
  • Albermarle
    Albermarle Posts: 27,767 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper
    The trouble is when you fill the freezer to full capacity, that is when you break the plastic drawer fronts trying to get the drawers open.
    Plus you have to leave the door open longer, as whatever you want is inevitably at the back and you have to unload all the other stuff to get to it.
    So about 75% full seems a good compromise!
  • quartzz
    quartzz Posts: 192 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 19 February at 4:01PM
    The trouble is when you fill the freezer to full capacity, that is when you break the plastic drawer fronts trying to get the drawers open.


    Seriously, this. The fridge+freezer in this place was left previously, and the drawers are all more duct tape than plastic. they could manufacture the drawers out of metal (I'm sure advanced technology could figure out a way for metal drawers not to get a build up of ice), but if the drawers never broke, they couldn't charge £20+ per drawer for replacements. and when I say £20, I probably mean £30.
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 18,566 Forumite
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    quartzz said:
    Isn’t the difference simply that cold air, as a gas, will spill out when the door is opened and be replaced by warm air, whereas a block of a frozen solid stays put?

    yyyyup. I think this is what we're saying. It'll act like a cold "battery"
    I wouldn't call it a cold battery, especially as cold is the absence of something so conceptually storing the absence is odd.

    If you have a 40L freezer with just 1 frozen pea in it and open the door, cold air is denser than hot air so it flows out the freezer. Obviously it doesn't cause a vacuum so warm air flows in to fill the space vacated. Close the door again and you now have 40L of warm air that you have to cool again. 

    Now have a 40L freezer thats stuffed to the gunnels, open the door and 5L of cold air may be there that escapes, close the door and now the freezer just has to get cool just the 5L of air. 

    The idea the ice "helps" doesn't play out as were it to absorb some of the heat energy from the new warm air then it too will have to lose it again to return to the steady state of -23c or whatever temp you have it set at. So it may help smooth the temperatures but won't change the total energy consumption caused by opening the door. 
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,935 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    quartzz said:
    The trouble is when you fill the freezer to full capacity, that is when you break the plastic drawer fronts trying to get the drawers open.


    Seriously, this. The fridge+freezer in this place was left previously, and the drawers are all more duct tape than plastic. they could manufacture the drawers out of metal (I'm sure advanced technology could figure out a way for metal drawers not to get a build up of ice), but if the drawers never broke, they couldn't charge £20+ per drawer for replacements. and when I say £20, I probably mean £30.
    And everybody's fingers would be stuck to the -23o metal...
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 9,711 Forumite
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    quartzz said:
    Isn’t the difference simply that cold air, as a gas, will spill out when the door is opened and be replaced by warm air, whereas a block of a frozen solid stays put?

    yyyyup. I think this is what we're saying. It'll act like a cold "battery"
    I wouldn't call it a cold battery, especially as cold is the absence of something so conceptually storing the absence is odd.
    ...
    Like a vacuum reservoir on a lorry, bus or train?

    (not disagreeing with you though)
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 9,711 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper
    quartzz said:
    The trouble is when you fill the freezer to full capacity, that is when you break the plastic drawer fronts trying to get the drawers open.


    Seriously, this. The fridge+freezer in this place was left previously, and the drawers are all more duct tape than plastic. they could manufacture the drawers out of metal (I'm sure advanced technology could figure out a way for metal drawers not to get a build up of ice), but if the drawers never broke, they couldn't charge £20+ per drawer for replacements. and when I say £20, I probably mean £30.
    And everybody's fingers would be stuck to the -23o metal...
    Then they could supply £30 "freezer drawer gloves".
  • quartzz
    quartzz Posts: 192 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    quartzz said:
    The trouble is when you fill the freezer to full capacity, that is when you break the plastic drawer fronts trying to get the drawers open.


    Seriously, this. The fridge+freezer in this place was left previously, and the drawers are all more duct tape than plastic. they could manufacture the drawers out of metal (I'm sure advanced technology could figure out a way for metal drawers not to get a build up of ice), but if the drawers never broke, they couldn't charge £20+ per drawer for replacements. and when I say £20, I probably mean £30.
    And everybody's fingers would be stuck to the -23o metal...

    That's true. Let me rephrase. There may be an alternate way of manufacturing a product, which does not involve charging £30 for a replacement item which is highly likely to break, in normal use. The disadvantage to that, is that there won't be replacement items which can be sold for £30. I've just thought of a solution to the observation of sticky freezing metal; coat said metal in plastic. I should charge a consultation fee ;-).
  • Olinda99
    Olinda99 Posts: 2,042 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Why do you have to put water in the container. Why not just put an empty container filled with air in the freezer?
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