Wren kitchens..is it fraud?

ricardo87

Recently we purchased a Wren kitchen and it was installed by one of their approved fitters. 

Later we found out that almost everything had had been installed incorrectly.

The fitter was more interested in going to his next job and seemed to have several on the go at the same time.

The response of Wren was to ignore us.

The new fitter we found described the initial installation as 'horrific,' and he is essentially re-installing most of the kitchen again.

This has caused huge disruption and stress as after several months the kitchen is still not installed properly.

I think this is a case of fraud, as it is inconceivable an approved Wren fitter would have knowingly installed most parts of the kitchen in an incorrect way. Is 'fraud' a correct label to use, legally?

Does anyone recommend what we should do next? We want compensation but don't really want to argue with them for months to get a couple of hundred pounds. This is an extreme case and they must be liable.

Are there types of lawyers who deal with this, and what about others who had kitchens installed by the same fitter? It is not easy to see flaws in installations, to know what is warped, what bolts were  included, whether cabinets are affixed to walls in a safe way, whether lighting cables are safe, etc. 

This may be the tip of an iceberg.

user1977

No, it isn't "fraud", and even if it was, how would that help you? Do you think the police will want to get involved?

pinkshoes

ricardo87 said:

Recently we purchased a Wren kitchen and it was installed by one of their approved fitters. 

Later we found out that almost everything had had been installed incorrectly.

The fitter was more interested in going to his next job and seemed to have several on the go at the same time.

The response of Wren was to ignore us.

The new fitter we found described the initial installation as 'horrific,' and he is essentially re-installing most of the kitchen again.

This has caused huge disruption and stress as after several months the kitchen is still not installed properly.

I think this is a case of fraud, as it is inconceivable an approved Wren fitter would have knowingly installed most parts of the kitchen in an incorrect way. Is 'fraud' a correct label to use, legally?

Does anyone recommend what we should do next? We want compensation but don't really want to argue with them for months to get a couple of hundred pounds. This is an extreme case and they must be liable.

Are there types of lawyers who deal with this, and what about others who had kitchens installed by the same fitter? It is not easy to see flaws in installations, to know what is warped, what bolts were  included, whether cabinets are affixed to walls in a safe way, whether lighting cables are safe, etc. 

This may be the tip of an iceberg.

Fraud? Compensation?

It's not fraud - they just don't vet their approved fitters very well. And it's not compensation you need, it's the cost of putting it right.

When you wrote to Wren and they ignored you, what did you say to them in your initial correspondence? Did you ask them to send a different fitter to fit the kitchen properly? Did you give them a timescale to respond by? Was this complaint via email and following their correct complain channels (if they have any)? e.g. can you prove you asked them to fix it.

Under consumer rights, you have to give them an opportunity to correct their mistake.

If you're satisfied you asked them to correct their poor fitting and they totally ignored you, your next step is to send Wren a letter before action giving them 14 days to pay £XXX (the amount it has cost you to have the kitchen fitted correctly) and if you don't pay you'll take them to court. Keep the letter factual, with dates of the initial fitting, the conversation with the fitter about fitting it correctly, your correspondence with them about it not having fitted it correctly and the fact that you gave them the opportunity to finish the work and they didn't reply. I'd then include a copy of the quote you have from your own fitter showing how much it is now costing you to have the kitchen completed.

A court will award your rightful out of pocket expenses so claim these. Asking for additional compensation for hurt feelings will not look good. 

Grumpy_chap

Did you have one contract with Wren to supply and install the kitchen?
Or, did you have a contract with Wren plus a second contract with the Fitter?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grumpy_chap said:

Did you have one contract with Wren to supply and install the kitchen?
Or, did you have a contract with Wren plus a second contract with the Fitter?

This OP is the question.

Have you tried escalating your complaint within Wren, Google CEO email and search that site for Wren for an email address that should go a bit higher up the chain.

Your foreseeable damages are the cost of putting correct what was not, some kind of report off the back of an independent inspection to show the things that are wrong would be wise.

I'm unclear whether you'd be awarded damages for the upheaval, @A_Geordie for that one  

A_Geordie

Compensation for hurt feelings or being upset are not recoverable for breach of contract.

However, you can be awarded compensation for loss of enjoyment where the object of the contract was to provide peace, relaxation, pleasure etc. The installation of a kitchen could fall within this category but it is dependent on the facts. If the kitchen is there just for show and not really used or it's a cheap, basic replacement install, I don't think any compensation would be awarded or if there was, a nominal amount.

If it is in regular use i.e. there's one or more individuals who like to cook, bake and the install included certain gadgets or technology that would enhance those who are cooking, then some compensation could be awarded. Don't expect a windfall but something like this might be in the region of couple hundred quid at best, unless we are talking £10,000s for the kitchen in which case something more may be awarded but still not significant.

Just a couple other points: 

- An independent report is not really necessary if the breach or issues are plainly obvious. It would probably be sufficient for an experienced kitten fitter to provide a letter on headed paper setting out the issues, what needs to be rectified and the expected costs of rectification. Photos of the issues/errors would help too. However, the OP suggests the new kitchen fitter has already started work, so if the OP is going to go to court over this one, then the kitchen fitter could be used as a witness and provide a witness statement to support the claim. 

- The OP's only remedies are not restricted to the Consumer Rights Act which is what I think PinkShoes was alluding to. The OP could rely on the contract and the terms themselves to claim damages/compensation which, on some occasions, may be more advantageous than relying on the statutory rights. Of course if the contract says that contract allowed Wren/kitchen fitter to attempt a remedy or to follow some other process, then the OP must do what the contract says. If the finished installation is so horrendous as suggested by the new kitchen fitter, then the OP could claim a material breach of contract and bypass any obligation for an attempted repair. 

But as everyone has said, need to know who the OP contracted for the installation, which may or may not affect the ability to recover any costs or other compensation. 

screech_78

Sounds like poor service. Not sure why you think it would be fraud. It also doesn’t sound like an extreme case - exaggerating doesn’t get you very far when looking for goodwill (which is what you’ll get; not compensation). 

I didn’t have a kitchen for going on 9 months. Literally had a tabletop hob, air fryer and microwave. Granted, my husband did my entire extension with new kitchen by himself at weekends, which is why it took so long, but I do have a chuckle when people get so wound up about not having a full kitchen for a couple of months. 

DullGreyGuy

ricardo87 said:
Is 'fraud' a correct label to use, legally?

The offence of fraud is defined in the Fraud Act 2006, section 1; may be committed by:
(a) dishonestly making a false representation (to a person, or to any system or device) with a view to gain or with intent to cause loss or expose to a risk of loss;
(b) dishonestly (and with a view to gain or with intent to cause loss, etc) failing to disclose information when under a legal duty to disclose it; or
(c) dishonest abuse of position, with a view to gain or to cause loss, etc.

It is irrelevant whether gain, loss or exposure to loss actually occurs.

From what you describe it's just a bad job and most likely would be described as negligence rather than fraud

A_Geordie said:
An independent report is not really necessary if the breach or issues are plainly obvious. It would probably be sufficient for an experienced kitten fitter to provide a letter on headed paper setting out the issues, what needs to be rectified and the expected costs of rectification. Photos of the issues/errors would help too. However, the OP suggests the new kitchen fitter has already started work, so if the OP is going to go to court over this one, then the kitchen fitter could be used as a witness and provide a witness statement to support the claim. 

The OP explicitly states its not easy to see the problems but what you describes sounds fairly like a report, independent would just mean that the person preparing it wasnt doing so in the hope of being awarded the job of fixing the problems as this creates a conflict of interests which could be used to create doubt on the validity of aspects of the report. 

Have certainly seen cases where the defendant agrees to parts of the claims and discredits others. It wasnt in relation to a kitchen fitting but were it then they could admit they put the door on backwards but argue that connecting three wall units and using mounts on the two end ones is accepted practice but the non-independent report is stating all three should be mounted independently isnt necessary but they're suggested doing it because its another £150 for them. 

ricardo87 said:
We want compensation but don't really want to argue with them for months to get a couple of hundred pounds. This is an extreme case and they must be liable.

You would claim damages from the party, and as others have already pointed out you need to check if the party is Wren or the fitters. Most damages for breach of contract are limited to your actual financial losses (eg the cost of refitting, replacing damaged parts etc) and generally doesn't allow for general stress, inconvenience etc. There are exceptions to this though but it's mainly where the contract explicitly was for the purpose of rest/relaxation etc (eg a holiday). 

Personally find it a bit of a stretch to say a kitchen fitting contract is explicitly one for relaxation however you may have quantified losses, eg having to rely on takeaway for a few days because you dont have a functional kitchen - though your claim would be the difference in cost between a takeaway and your normal food bill for a day. 

Note that you do have a legal obligation to mitigate your losses so a non-working kitchen doesn't mean you can eat out at 3 Michelin Star restaurants and expect them to pay the difference in cost from your normal beans on toast supper. 


To the best of my knowledge, but you need to check your paperwork, normally with these national kitchen companies your contract for fitting is with the individual fitter not the kitchen firm. If this is the case it should be considered when deciding what action to take and the prospects of actually making a recovery were it to be litigated and an award in your favour made. 

ricardo87 said:
Are there types of lawyers who deal with this, and what about others who had kitchens installed by the same fitter? 

Deal with what? Badly fitted kitchens? No, it's too niche. Breach of contract? Yes, its bread and butter work for many law firms. 

You may want to check your Home Insurance, or with any union or club you are a member of, to see if it includes Legal Expenses cover. If it does its likely they will provide general advice on how to proceed and may cover providing a lawyer to handle the matter if your unable to resolve it yourself and litigation is looking likely. 

As to others who've used the same fitter? You could post on a local Facebook group or other forum to try and find people however there is a reasonable prospect that others have had a different experience with the same guy. You obviously should be careful not to post libellous comments if you are explicitly naming them.

People have different expectations and therefore will have different reactions to the same outcome. No one would want a dangerous kitchen but some may think going to Wren is a luxury experience whereas others will consider Wren a budget option and so have lower expectations of the final outcome. 

A_Geordie

DullGreyGuy said:

The OP explicitly states its not easy to see the problems

That's true, but it isn't clear what the OP means by not seeing the problems easily, and just because you cannot see easily see the problem does not mean that the issues are not plainly obvious such that they require an independent report carried out. As I'm sure you'll know, most kitchens cupboards, drawers, fixtures and fittings are flat packed furniture that have no more of a difficulty level than an Ikea wardrobe (if you have the patience), so if a section was put on backwards or in other ways wrongly installed, then it may be plainly obvious that there is an issue and could be easily verified by checking the installation instructions - though it may not be easily seen if that section is installed inside the cupboard such as a supporting piece for a sink or a pull out drawer in a corner cupboard. That would not require an independent report to tell you there is an issue.

I have seen so many times courts refuse to award claimants their costs of a report on the basis that the issues were obvious and did not require a third party to be paid to understand that there is a problem. Proportionality, costs and saving expense in accordance with the CPR's overriding objective spring to mind, especially if the dispute is a small claim under £10k. 

but what you describes sounds fairly like a report, independent would just mean that the person preparing it wasnt doing so in the hope of being awarded the job of fixing the problems as this creates a conflict of interests which could be used to create doubt on the validity of aspects of the report. 

I wouldn't necessarily say that what I've described would be considered a report but I suppose it depends on one's own view as to what that means. If I was asking someone to provide a report, I would expect them to carry out an analysis of the alleged issues/damage, consider the root cause, outside factors that could have contributed and then come to a conclusion as to who is responsible and why - the kind of report you might get from the AA who offer independent vehicle assessments.

independent would just mean that the person preparing it wasnt doing so in the hope of being awarded the job of fixing the problems as this creates a conflict of interests which could be used to create doubt on the validity of aspects of the report. 

The court will take a neutral stance and it will be up to Wren/kitchen fitter to argue the assessment given by the new kitchen fitter is wrong or that he/she had ulterior motives based on their assessment. There is no rule or authority I am aware of that the assessor of the damage/issues must be separate from the individual/company who is rectifying those issues, and that there is a presumption that the same professional or company has some kind of ulterior motive if both assessing the damage and carrying out remedial work. 

EnPointe

OP where do you consider the 'Fraud ' to be ? 

what was the contractual arangement  regard supply and fitting ?

EnPointe

pinkshoes said:

ricardo87 said:

Recently we purchased a Wren kitchen and it was installed by one of their approved fitters. 

Later we found out that almost everything had had been installed incorrectly.

The fitter was more interested in going to his next job and seemed to have several on the go at the same time.

The response of Wren was to ignore us.

The new fitter we found described the initial installation as 'horrific,' and he is essentially re-installing most of the kitchen again.

This has caused huge disruption and stress as after several months the kitchen is still not installed properly.

I think this is a case of fraud, as it is inconceivable an approved Wren fitter would have knowingly installed most parts of the kitchen in an incorrect way. Is 'fraud' a correct label to use, legally?

Does anyone recommend what we should do next? We want compensation but don't really want to argue with them for months to get a couple of hundred pounds. This is an extreme case and they must be liable.

Are there types of lawyers who deal with this, and what about others who had kitchens installed by the same fitter? It is not easy to see flaws in installations, to know what is warped, what bolts were  included, whether cabinets are affixed to walls in a safe way, whether lighting cables are safe, etc. 

This may be the tip of an iceberg.

Fraud? Compensation?

It's not fraud - they just don't vet their approved fitters very well. And it's not compensation you need, it's the cost of putting it right.

When you wrote to Wren and they ignored you, what did you say to them in your initial correspondence? Did you ask them to send a different fitter to fit the kitchen properly? Did you give them a timescale to respond by? Was this complaint via email and following their correct complain channels (if they have any)? e.g. can you prove you asked them to fix it.

Under consumer rights, you have to give them an opportunity to correct their mistake.

If you're satisfied you asked them to correct their poor fitting and they totally ignored you, your next step is to send Wren a letter before action giving them 14 days to pay £XXX (the amount it has cost you to have the kitchen fitted correctly) and if you don't pay you'll take them to court. Keep the letter factual, with dates of the initial fitting, the conversation with the fitter about fitting it correctly, your correspondence with them about it not having fitted it correctly and the fact that you gave them the opportunity to finish the work and they didn't reply. I'd then include a copy of the quote you have from your own fitter showing how much it is now costing you to have the kitchen completed.

A court will award your rightful out of pocket expenses so claim these. Asking for additional compensation for hurt feelings will not look good. 

You seem to be assuming that Wren  contract/ employ  the fitter there ...

because if not  it;s like suing the Farmer  because the chef  burnt your steak 

 The OP is not clear on the contractual arrangement with regard to supply and fitting 

did the OP  purchase the  Kitchen (units  etc)  from Wren themselves ?

did the OP contract  directly with the fitter  for installation of the kitchen they (OP)  / a sales person from Wren had 'designed'  / specified  for them ? 

 or does Wren  (sub) contract  the fitters ?