IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Pay & Display - 15mins after ticket expiry CCTV by Excel

Options
2

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,382 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 13 April at 11:48PM
    The only reason to dispute it is to look reasonable later on (to a Judge) but if you do that, just state that you were shocked that your vehicle was filmed (ANPR) covertly and that their signage was wordy and nothing on the tariff list at the point of payment warned of any £100 rip off penalty. Therefore there was no agreement to pay £100 on top of the fee paid for the time parked.

    You could add your mitigating circumstances, up to you. None of it will 'work' but you could say that the time taken to load bags into a vehicle and to feed/settle and strap a very young baby back in, is not 'parking' and adjustments should be made for nursing mothers under the Equality Act 2010.

    DO NOT TRY THE IAS!

    But other than that, sit tight. Do nothing except the below.


    By going confidently into the 'ignore' stance, the only steps to take (because you MUST check every letter) are:

    - Tell them if you move house within 6 years.

    - Ignore the tedious £170 threatograms shown in pictures in the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread.

    - Come back if you get a solicitor's LBC as per the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.

    There is no risk AT ALL in defending a court claim. No CCJ. No bailiffs.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • loganby
    loganby Posts: 25 Forumite
    Second Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    I got a photo of the signage.  Don’t see any warning about Cameras monitoring you. Also, it’s rather wordy
  • loganby
    loganby Posts: 25 Forumite
    Second Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 14 April at 11:12AM
    (Image removed by Forum Team)
    Just got this notice of intended legal action from DCBL. Is the advice to still ignore?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,382 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 13 April at 11:50PM
    loganby said:



    I got a photo of the signage.  Don’t see any warning about Cameras monitoring you. Also, it’s rather wordy


    You didn't need to show us the letter. It's similar to one already shown in the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread which is about your stage.

    But was that the first letter since the January PCN, or was there one in between?

    That sign is so deliberately wordy and madly distracting in colours (and that unnecessary border in the left) that it's utter gobbledegook isn't it? The payment times for day and evening rates also overlap and trying to make head or tail of all that information would take at least ten minutes.

    And you're right: you'd never know your car was being filmed.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • loganby
    loganby Posts: 25 Forumite
    Second Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 22 June at 9:57AM
    Defense ready:

    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    Claim No.:

    Between

    EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LTD

     

    - and –

     

    ****

    _________________

    DEFENCE­­

     

    1.  The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that any conduct by the driver was in breach of any term.  Further, it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as agents) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the boilerplate text in the Particulars of Claim ('the POC').

     

    The facts known to the Defendant:

    2. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The POC appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action". The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case, allegation(s) and what heads of cost are being pursued, making it difficult to respond. However, the vehicle is recognised and it is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver.

    3. For the Defendant it was a visit to Lincoln with a baby boy, on 25.01.2025. The Defendant is unfamiliar with the car park regime on Grantham Street, Lincoln. The Defendant considers that it has the appearance of a standard Council parking facility. The Defendant purchased a ticket for 2 hours from the machine, which is located beside the unnecessarily heavily-decorated and wordy sign. Close to the end of the ticketed period the Defendant’s 4-month-old baby needed feeding, comforting and changing. This is a process that cannot be delayed and is not 'parking' and adjustments should be made for nursing mothers under the Equality Act 2010.  By the time that this had been satisfactorily completed, the Defendant vacated the car park unaware that the car park grace period had been exceeded by a few minutes. The Defendant had no idea that the car was actually being filmed. The sign does not clearly indicate this at the point of payment.
    This is predatory ticketing with unclear, cluttered signage, and the Defendant's research has exposed that Grantham Street and other such Excel Parking sites are notorious for entrapment, where many court claim judgments have been found against this claimant.

     

     

    4. The Claimant will concede that no financial loss has arisen and that in order to impose an inflated parking charge, as well as proving a term was breached, there must be:

    (i). a strong 'legitimate interest' extending beyond mere compensation for loss, and

    (Ii). 'adequate notice' of the 'penalty clause' charge which, in the case of a car park, requires prominent signs and lines.

    5. The Defendant denies (i) or (ii) have been met. The charge imposed, in all the circumstances is a penalty, not saved by ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC67 ('the Beavis case'), which is fully distinguished.

    Exaggerated Claim and 'market failure' currently being addressed by UK Government

    6. The alleged 'core debt' from any parking charge cannot exceed £100 (the industry cap).  It is denied that any 'Debt Fees' or damages were actually paid or incurred.

    7. This claim is unfair and inflated and it is denied that any sum is due in debt or damages. This Claimant routinely pursues an unconscionable fixed sum added per PCN, despite knowing that the will of Parliament is to ban it.

    8. This is a classic example where adding exaggerated fees funds bulk litigation of weak and/or archive parking cases. No checks and balances are likely to have been made to ensure facts, merit or a cause of action (given away by the woefully inadequate POC).

    9. The Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities ('the DLUHC') published a statutory Parking Code of Practice in February 2022: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice.

    The Ministerial Foreword is damning: "Private firms issue roughly 22,000 parking tickets every day, often adopting a labyrinthine system of misleading and confusing signage, opaque appeals services, aggressive debt collection and unreasonable fees designed to extort money from motorists." 

    10. Despite legal challenges delaying the Code (temporarily withdrawn) a draft Impact Assessment (IA) was published on 30th July 2023. The then Government's analysis is found here:  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1171438/Draft_IA_-_Private_Parking_Code_of_Practice_.pdf

    11. Paragraphs 4.31 and 5.19 state that the parking industry has shown the DLUHC that the true minor cost of pre-action stage totals a mere £8.42 per case (not per PCN).

    12. This claim has been enhanced by a disproportionate sum, believed to enrich the litigating legal team. It appears to be double recovery, duplicating the intended 'legal fees' cap set by small claims track rules. Further, claiming costs on an indemnity basis is unfair, per the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance (CMA37, para 5.14.3):

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

    13. The draft IA shows that the intimidating letter-chains endured by Defendants cost 'eight times less' than the  fixed +£70 per PCN. This causes immense consumer harm in the form of some half a million wrongly-enhanced CCJs each year, that Judges are powerless to prevent.  MoJ statistics reveal several hundred thousand parking claims per annum, with c90% causing default CCJs totalling hundreds of millions of pounds. The false fee was enabled by the self-serving Codes of Practice of the rival parking Trade Bodies who aligned in 2021 to allow +£70, each led by a Board comprising the parking and debt firms who stood to gain from it. 

    14. The heads of alleged loss or purported 'contractually agreed' sums are unspecified and not adequately broken down, but it is denied that the added costs / damages sought were incurred. In this industry, debt collectors charge nothing when failing to collect parking charges.

    15. A typical private PCN model comprises a series of demands that the Supreme Court called an 'automated letter-chain' and the parking charge itself is already inflated to generate a healthy profit. In Beavis, there were 4 pre-action letters/reminders and the £85 PCN was held to more than cover the minor costs of the operation. This is less about genuine 'parking management' and more of a PCN-generating scheme, where debt demands are part of the regime.

    16. Whilst the new Code is 'on hold' and not retrospective, the new MHCLG Secretary of State must still introduce a statutory Code of Practice according to the legislation already enacted. It is surely a clear steer for the Courts that the Government said that it is addressing 'market failure' and in 2025, the new Labour Government has pledged to resurrect the statutory Code with a Public Consultation expected within weeks. Statutory regulation will soon replace the BPA & IPC Code, so the clauses in the (temporarily stalled) February 2022 Code should bear significantly more weight than the industry's own self-serving version. 

    17. Attention is drawn to paras 98, 100, 193, 198 of Beavis.  Also ParkingEye Ltd v Somerfield Stores Ltd ChD [2011] EWHC 4023(QB) where the parking charge was £75, discounted to £37.50 for prompt payment.  Whilst £75 was reasonable, HHJ Hegarty (decision ratified by the CoA) held in paras 419-428 that 'admin costs' inflating a PCN to £135 exaggerated the cost of template letters and 'would appear to be penal'. That judgment was unaffected by Beavis and remains binding as the only authority covering the clear abuse of parking firms routinely adding imaginary 'admin /debt recovery' fees to further enhance a large parking charge.

    18. In addition, pursuant to Schedule 4 paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('the POFA') the sum claimed exceeds the maximum potentially recoverable from a registered keeper. The Claimant is put to strict proof of POFA compliance, if they are relying upon 'keeper liability'.

    19. The Defendant avers that there was no agreement to pay a parking charge or added 'damages' which were not even incurred, let alone quantified in bold, prominent text. This Claimant's lack of large, readable signs are nothing like the yellow & black warnings seen in Beavis, nor do they even meet the basic signage requirements in the current BPA & IPC Joint Code of Practice, which reflects the already statutory requirement for 'prominence' (Consumer Rights Act 2015 - the 'CRA').

    CRA breach - lack of prominent terms

    20. Section 71 CRA creates a statutory duty upon Courts to consider the test of fairness whether a party raises it or not.

    21. The CRA introduced new requirements for 'prominence' of both terms and 'consumer notices'. In a parking context, this includes a test of fairness and clarity of 'signs & lines' and all communications (written or otherwise). Signs must be prominent (lit in hours of darkness/dusk and adequately positioned where terms are bound to be seen) and all terms must be unambiguous and contractual obligations clear.

    22.  The Defendant avers that the CRA has been breached due to unfair/unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the duties of fair/open dealing and good faith (NB: this does not necessarily mean there has to be a finding of bad faith).  

    ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished

    23.  Unlike in Beavis, the penalty rule remains engaged. The CRA covers disproportionate sums, which are not exempt from being assessed for fairness because a 'fee' is not the core price term and neither was it prominently proclaimed on the signs.  

    24. The Supreme Court held that deterrence is likely to be penal if there is a lack of a 'legitimate interest' in performance extending beyond the prospect of compensation flowing directly from alleged breach.  The intention cannot be to punish a driver, nor to present them with hidden terms or cumbersome obligations ('concealed pitfalls or traps').  This Claimant has failed those tests, with small signs, hidden terms and minuscule small print that is incapable of binding a driver. Court of Appeal authorities about a lack of ‘adequate notice’ of a parking charge include:

    (i) Spurling v Bradshaw [1956] 1 WLR 461 (Lord Denning's ‘red hand rule’) and

    (ii) Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] EWCA Civ2,

    both leading authorities that a clause cannot be incorporated after a contract has been concluded; and

    (iii) Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest: CA 5 Apr 2000, where Ms Vine won because it was held that she had not seen the terms by which she would later be bound, due to "the absence of any notice on the wall opposite the parking space''. 

    Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR

    25. DVLA registered keeper data is only supplied on the basis that parking operators who do not own the land must hold prior written agreement from the landholder. Should the Claimant try to rely upon the finding in One Parking Solution v Wilshaw in this regard, it is averred that this appeal judgment was misguided and plainly wrong. The DVLA rules and requirements that relate to private parking operators are a fundamental set of rules specific to parking on private land and regrettably, HHJ Simpkiss was not appraised about the 'KADOE' requirement for written landowner authority. Even the BPA & IPC's questionable industry Code gets this right: absent written landowner authority, there is no 'reasonable cause' to obtain DVLA data nor to issue PCNs. 

    26. It is not accepted that this Claimant (an agent of a principal) had written authority from the landowner to offer and form contracts with drivers at this site, in their own right. Many parking operators merely act as agents (contracted to put signs up and issue charges 'on behalf of' the site landowner) and this Claimant is put to strict proof of their standing to litigate.

    27. The Claimant failed to offer a genuinely independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). The rival Trade Bodies' time-limited and opaque 'appeals' services fail to properly consider facts or rules of law and reject most disputes: e.g. the IAS upheld appeals in a woeful average 5% of decided cases (ref: recent Annual IAS Reports). An impartial, fair appeals service was never on offer.

    Conclusion

    28. There is now evidence to support the view - long held by many District Judges - that these are knowingly exaggerated claims that are causing consumer harm. The claim itself relies on an unfair charge which is entirely without merit, and should be dismissed.

    29. In the matter of costs, the Defendant seeks:

    (a) standard witness costs for attendance at Court, pursuant to CPR 27.14, and

    (b) a finding of unreasonable conduct by this Claimant, and further costs pursuant to CPR 46.5. 

    30.  Attention is drawn to the (often-seen) distinct possibility of an unreasonably late Notice of Discontinuance. Whilst CPR r.38.6 states that the Claimant is liable for the Defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) this does not 'normally' apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the White Book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(dg))."   

    Statement of Truth

    I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

    Signature:

     

    Date:


  • Car1980
    Car1980 Posts: 1,390 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    "The Defendant considers that it has the appearance of a standard Council parking facility."

    I'd just remove that sentence.

    "The Defendant purchased a ticket for 2 hours from the machine, which is located beside the unnecessarily heavily-decorated and wordy sign."

    Maybe tweak to say this:

    "The Defendant managed to purchase a ticket for 2 hours from the machine, which is located next to an enormously complicated multi-coloured sign consisting of hundreds of words and acres of small print which is clearly not capable of forming a valid contract with anyone."




  • knightstyle
    knightstyle Posts: 7,222 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Op. just to say that we had a similar PCN from Exel which was eventually heard at Lincoln Court.  It was my first time in the county court and the Exel rep put their case and then I put our defence. Exel had made a complete b+lls up of there evidence and following advice here I robustly pointed out all the errors.  The judge agreed with me and dismissed the claim.
    So follow the advice given on here and if it goes to court don't be put off by their threatening language, debt collectors etc.
    Oh and don't forget to ask for your days expenses.
  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,747 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    OP
    Unless it's bogus, you've left a claim number showing at the top of your defence.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,317 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Has a formal court claim been issued?  If so, Date of Issue (as shown on the form). Have you Acknowledged Service (AOS)?  If so, on what date?

    If there is a formal claim in play, who has issued it - DCB Legal, Elms Legal of Excel themselves (check the form carefully please). 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • loganby
    loganby Posts: 25 Forumite
    Second Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper

    I did the AOS 9 June.

    Claimant is Excel PS Ltd

    Send docs to ELMS Legal

     

    Do I need to do anything with the paper Response Pack?

    Or do I just need to send the above to an email address  - CCBCAQ@justice.gov.uk and ELMS email?


Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.9K Life & Family
  • 257.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.