SCS refusing to cancel order but didn't say at point of sale.

Kim_13

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

Regarding the other question as to whether the broad term "to amend" includes the narrower term "to cancel", I think I'd say no, it doesn't

The dictionary definition seems to be "make minor changes to" and cancelling wouldn't be minor but then what is minor with regards to a sofa? Change the colour of the feet maybe, change the colour of the upholstery? Seems a bit more than minor to me.

Would also be interesting to know exactly in what way SCS allow the customer to amend their order. 

Point 1.5 of their Retail Terms: 

1.5 You may make a request to change the colour or combination of your order within 5 days of placing your order. Changes may result in a revised delivery lead-time being agreed. Any agreed changes will be confirmed by us and are subject to these terms. We normally only deliver within our standard area. We may be able to deliver elsewhere; please contact us to discuss.

The existence of a 5 day window, if they don’t deny it exists for amending rather than cancelling, would presumably mean they don’t actually start work on it until the end of that window, so it wouldn’t be a problem to change the specifics of the order - but they know they’re guaranteed some business by getting people to sign more freely than they would if they thought they had no room to change their mind.

Okell

Niv said:

Much of this thread seems to relate to rights (or not) of cancelling an order from an instore purchase. In addition to this I thought that if an item was customised / made to order than you also had no right to a change of mind cancellation - is that not also the case? Just clarifying for the OP, me and anyone else that was wondering that element...

For distance contracts The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 give consumers a right (subject to certain exceptions) to cancel the contract within 14 days of delivery, and to return goods to the trader within a further 14 days of giving notification that they are cancelling the contract.  So long as the consumer has not diminished the value of the goods by handling them more than is necessary, the consumer is entitled to a full refund.

One of the exceptions to the right to cancel a distance contract is where the goods either have been personalised or have been made to the consumer's specifications.

(In addition to rights granted by statute, consumers might also have rights under common law.  While there is no statutory right to cancel an instore purchase, there is a suggestion on this thread that there might be a common law right to do so)

Niv said:

... I do think that for such large purchases the company involved 'should' provide / make clear the T&Cs at purchase...

Agreed

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Kim_13 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

Regarding the other question as to whether the broad term "to amend" includes the narrower term "to cancel", I think I'd say no, it doesn't

The dictionary definition seems to be "make minor changes to" and cancelling wouldn't be minor but then what is minor with regards to a sofa? Change the colour of the feet maybe, change the colour of the upholstery? Seems a bit more than minor to me.

Would also be interesting to know exactly in what way SCS allow the customer to amend their order. 

Point 1.5 of their Retail Terms: 

1.5 You may make a request to change the colour or combination of your order within 5 days of placing your order. Changes may result in a revised delivery lead-time being agreed. Any agreed changes will be confirmed by us and are subject to these terms. We normally only deliver within our standard area. We may be able to deliver elsewhere; please contact us to discuss.

The existence of a 5 day window, if they don’t deny it exists for amending rather than cancelling, would presumably mean they don’t actually start work on it until the end of that window, so it wouldn’t be a problem to change the specifics of the order - but they know they’re guaranteed some business by getting people to sign more freely than they would if they thought they had no room to change their mind.

Thanks I was too lazy to look  

So that raises the question of what combination means and indeed whether as suggested changing the order to a cushion (brilliant idea) would be worth a go. 

I'm not sure what common law right there would be for a consumer to cancel a contract (always happy to be more informed ), a consumer can't be forced to perform their obligations obviously but that usually results in the ordinary position for such a breach, costs or loss of profit. Costs are probably zero so company would likely want loss of profit which could be up to half the order value.  

Okell

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

Kim_13

Niv said:

Much of this thread seems to relate to rights (or not) of cancelling an order from an instore purchase. In addition to this I thought that if an item was customised / made to order than you also had no right to a change of mind cancellation - is that not also the case? Just clarifying for the OP, me and anyone else that was wondering that element.

I do think that for such large purchases the company involved 'should' provide / make clear the T&Cs at purchase, although I understand in this case that they post most details online with a line to 'ask in store if you have any queries' type disclaimer.

You have no automatic right in law to cancel any bespoke purchase, whether in store or at distance, so have to rely on that store’s policy which may give a right to do so. The problem here is that OP has relied on the rights SCS provide being represented as cancellation within 5 days, when it is only an amendment. At this point OP doesn’t even have the right to amend, as the order was placed several weeks ago - so probably in production by now and SCS would lose money if they agreed to a change.

This will come down to the evidence both sides can present, and whether the court think that SCS did attempt to introduce the no cancellation term after the fact - in which case OP wouldn’t have to pay.

Online would only get more rights than in store if it was a mass produced item - though there have probably been cases where people don’t believe that selecting X sofa in Y size (say 2 seats) and Z colour combination with a motorised foot rest makes it personalised, but the company would argue that they can’t easily resell it as the odds are that someone else choosing that sofa and colour would want it in say 3 seats or with manual foot rests. When there are so many options provided, the odds of someone else wanting exactly the same in a short space of time is minuscule, leaving the company with a sofa lying around or that they have to sell at a discount if they want it gone quickly.

elsien

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

Does that not just mean you can't sent it back once you've got it unless it is faulty or presumably as a good will gesture which they agree to in writing, for whatever reason? It doesn't read to me as giving an automatic right to cancel prior to delivery,

Alderbank

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

It's a shorter way of saying:

"2.1(a) You will have no right to cancel the contract unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing." 

"2.1(b) You will have no right to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing." 

born_again

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

If you ordered your product in store, please speak with them directly about your rights to cancel or amend your order.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81267643/#Comment_81267643

Although we are going round in circles here.🤷‍♀️

Okell

elsien said:

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

Does that not just mean you can't sent it back once you've got it unless it is faulty or presumably as a good will gesture which they agree to in writing, for whatever reason? It doesn't read to me as giving an automatic right to cancel prior to delivery,

Alderbank said:

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

It's a shorter way of saying:

"2.1(a) You will have no right to cancel the contract unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing." 

"2.1(b) You will have no right to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing." 

You both might be right and I am missing something, but to me the phrasing "You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered" has a straightforward meaning and clearly implies that the consumer does have a right to cancel before a product has been delivered.  (Otherwise I can't see any point in adding the qualification "once delivered")

@Alderbank, surely the shortest and clearest way of saying it would be:

"2.1  You have no right to cancel any order, contract or purchase you have made instore".

The issue of goods not conforming to contract is entirely separate from cancellation.

Alderbank

Okell said:

elsien said:

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

Does that not just mean you can't sent it back once you've got it unless it is faulty or presumably as a good will gesture which they agree to in writing, for whatever reason? It doesn't read to me as giving an automatic right to cancel prior to delivery,

Alderbank said:

Okell said:

Hold on everybody!

SCS Retail T&Cs (as opposed to their website T&Cs) say:

"2.1 You will have no right to cancel the contract or to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing."   ( Retail Terms & Conditions | ScS )

Am I missing something, or doesn't that say that the consumer can cancel an instore purchase up to delivery?

(NB - the T&Cs do contain a provision that if the consumer cancels then SCS might charge up to 25% of the purchase price to take account of losses and/or costs they may have incurred up to cancellation)

It's a shorter way of saying:

"2.1(a) You will have no right to cancel the contract unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing." 

"2.1(b) You will have no right to return a product once delivered, unless either the product does not conform to the contract, or we agree to the cancellation in writing." 

@Alderbank, surely the shortest and clearest way of saying it would be:

"2.1  You have no right to cancel any order, contract or purchase you have made instore".

The issue of goods not conforming to contract is entirely separate from cancellation.

That's a fair point and I agree with you. That's why I said shorter rather than shortest.

The shortest might be 
"2.1  You have no right to cancel any contract made instore".

I think we might be drifting off topic