Is anyone in actual disbelief at the new water charges coming in 2025?

DiamondLil

Here in Thames Water territory, our annual bill has risen from £485.24 for last year to £700.30 for the coming year.

DullGreyGuy

ballisticbrian said:

I'm not attempting to make this political, it is purely maths! Anyone?

Lets make up a silly example because its always easier... you are a water company. You are already providing the absolute maximum water you can with the kit you have, can't support 1 more household. 

Mr Developer comes along and builds 10 new houses, lets ignore the water it took to build them, but yes you are right the water company now has 10 more customers so getting, on average £4,750 more a year in revenue. 

How much do you think a water treatment plant costs to build and plumb in? Less than £4,750 or more? 

Even if you managed to find some way to actually do it for £4,750 now who's paying for the running of that new plant as you've used all your new revenue setting it up and left nothing to run it. 

This is investment in infrastructure, the cost of doing it is going to be many years of payments from the new customers its supports but you need the money now not in 6 years time. Similarly you wouldn't build a plant that can only deal with those 10 new households but build one that can deal with the next 10 years worth of projected growth as the overheads of running infrastructure projects proportionally diminish the larger it is but for this year its just 10 new payers.

As you say its just purely maths 

smallgreen

DiamondLil said:

Here in Thames Water territory, our annual bill has risen from £485.24 for last year to £700.30 for the coming year.

I dont get this. Thats a 44% increase. I just got my Thames Water bill for next year and the increase is 49%.

The OFWAT determination in December said that Thames Water were limited to a 35% increase over 5 years (they asked for 53%). How are Thames Water sending out bills higher than the OFWAT ruling for the next 5 years?

smallgreen

To see the OFWAT ruling for Thames Water and all the other water companies you can search for the "Ofwat approves £104bn upgrade to accelerate delivery of cleaner rivers and seas and secure long-term drinking water supplies for customers" article on Ofwats website.

smallgreen

Lets make up a silly example because its always easier... you are a water company. You are already providing the absolute maximum water you can with the kit you have, can't support 1 more household. 

Mr Developer comes along and builds 10 new houses, lets ignore the water it took to build them, but yes you are right the water company now has 10 more customers so getting, on average £4,750 more a year in revenue. 

How much do you think a water treatment plant costs to build and plumb in? Less than £4,750 or more? 

Even if you managed to find some way to actually do it for £4,750 now who's paying for the running of that new plant as you've used all your new revenue setting it up and left nothing to run it. 

This is investment in infrastructure, the cost of doing it is going to be many years of payments from the new customers its supports but you need the money now not in 6 years time. Similarly you wouldn't build a plant that can only deal with those 10 new households but build one that can deal with the next 10 years worth of projected growth as the overheads of running infrastructure projects proportionally diminish the larger it is but for this year its just 10 new payers.

As you say its just purely maths 

Maybe they should have been improving and maintaining the infrastructure so they didn't end up at maximum in everything all at once. As you say, its very predictable and purely maths. 

Instead, my water company Thames Water has been fined for failing to invest, and fined for unprocessed waste water releases, and run up £60bn in debts. Despite this they paid their shareholders dividends and CEO bonuses as if they have been doing great.

The shareholders and executives should all be forced to pay back the money then sent to jail, not coming and asking us for more money!

brook_heather

smallgreen said:

DiamondLil said:

Here in Thames Water territory, our annual bill has risen from £485.24 for last year to £700.30 for the coming year.

I dont get this. Thats a 44% increase. I just got my Thames Water bill for next year and the increase is 49%.

The OFWAT determination in December said that Thames Water were limited to a 35% increase over 5 years (they asked for 53%). How are Thames Water sending out bills higher than the OFWAT ruling for the next 5 years?

I checked the increase in the unit rates and I calculate it is about 32% for this year - are you looking at the unit rates or your bill and are you on a meter?  The increase may be more if you are not on a meter.  Also the OFWAT cap on the increase does not include inflation increases.

smallgreen

brook_heather said:

I checked the increase in the unit rates and I calculate it is about 32% for this year - are you looking at the unit rates or your bill and are you on a meter?  The increase may be more if you are not on a meter.  Also the OFWAT cap on the increase does not include inflation increases.

Hi, thanks for checking this.

I am on a single occupier tariff assessed rate. As such the unit rates are not included on my bills. However, when I work out what I am being charged for this year compared to the amount I am being billed for next year, the change is 48.93%.

Even with the current rate if inflation of around 2.4% the rise is way above the determination of 35%.

Why would the increase for assessed accounts be able to exceed the OFWAT cap?

306chris2000

Just got my UU bill raising from 663 to 796. Cheeky !!!!!!, 

Are shareholders taking a reduced dividend?

MattMattMattUK

306chris2000 said:

Just got my UU bill raising from 663 to 796. Cheeky !!!!!!, 

Are shareholders taking a reduced dividend?

There is a very real possibility that the suppliers will not be issuing a dividend for several years, or it will be a minimal yield. With some of the suppliers, Thames Water the most likely candidate at the moment their is a significant risk that they will become insolvent and the shareholders will lose some or even all of their investment. 

Troytempest

Years of poor control by the regulator allowing water companies to get away with murder - it really is that simple.