Is anyone in actual disbelief at the new water charges coming in 2025?

ballisticbrian

Is anyone in actual disbelief at the new water charges coming in 2025?

So the argument is for investment and the reason we're running out of water is because of all the new houses demanding water (population growth)

But what I don't understand is, if there is new demand, then you have new paying customers.

Is anyone following ?

The new investment in infrastructure is because we have people coming into the country I get it, but those people should be directly proportional to the amount of extra water and investment needed?

I'm not attempting to make this political, it is purely maths! Anyone?

elsien

The reason for increased charges is because of the lack of investments in infrastructure  over the years and the fact that the system is falling apart while companies paid out large dividends to shareholders.
Nothing to do with people coming into the country.

QrizB

ballisticbrian said:

I'm not attempting to make this political, it is purely maths! Anyone?

Not all water is equal.

Imagine you're a water company.

You can get your water from source A or source B. Source A can supply 1000 cubic metres a day for £1 a cubic metre, source B can supply 5000 cubic metres a day for £2 a cubic metre.

You have enough customers that they collectively need 600 cubic metres a day. You're going to draw it from source A, average cost £1 a cubic metre.

Now you get more customers and need an extra 600 cubic metres a day. Total 1200 cubic metres. You can get 1000 of those from source A, but the last 200 have to come from source B. The total cost is now £1400. You need to charge (14/12) £1.17 a cubic metre, a 17% increase.

MattMattMattUK

It is not more people, it is decades of under investment, climate change and population growth all combined. 

I totally understand why we need to increase bills, but water companies also need to be allowed to go bust and then nationalised. Thames Water as an example, a debt laden mess which has used that debt to allow it to issue billions in dividends that should not have been paid out. Happy to let them go bust then nationalise them, but bills will still need to increase significantly over the next decade.

Hoenir

No one cares that Apple is ripping them off though......

MikeJXE

Hoenir said:

No one cares that Apple is ripping them off though......

I think that's slightly different, you have a choice to buy or not 

Water is a necessity and have no choice over the price 

Hoenir

MikeJXE said:

Hoenir said:

No one cares that Apple is ripping them off though......

I think that's slightly different, you have a choice to buy or not 

Water is a necessity and have no choice over the price 

Funny old world. No shortage of other examples.  

MattMattMattUK

MikeJXE said:

Hoenir said:

No one cares that Apple is ripping them off though......

I think that's slightly different, you have a choice to buy or not 

Water is a necessity and have no choice over the price 

Some people seem to think iPhones are essential and they have no choice...

One of the huge issues we have in this country is a majority of the electorate want taxes which are too low, or costs which are too low, which means lower investment. That is all now coming home to roost, we need to hugely increase investment in water to keep the taps flowing, in energy to keep the lights on, in roads just to get rid of the worst potholes, in thr NHS, education, policing etc. There has been a thirty year period of under investment and that is now biting hard and it always costs more in the long term. Still, some people seem happy they have dumped all that cost on their children and grandchildren. 

ballisticbrian

QrizB said:

ballisticbrian said:

I'm not attempting to make this political, it is purely maths! Anyone?

Not all water is equal.

Imagine you're a water company.

You can get your water from source A or source B. Source A can supply 1000 cubic metres a day for £1 a cubic metre, source B can supply 5000 cubic metres a day.

You have enough customers that they collectively need 600 cubic metres a day. You're going to draw it from source A, average cost £1 a cubic metre.

Now you get more customers and need an extra 600 cubic metres a day. Total 1200 cubic metres. You can get 1000 of those from source A, but the last 200 have to come from source B. The total cost is now £1400. You need to charge (14/12) £1.17 a cubic metre, a 17% increase.

Thank you, very logical. I will say however that the water companies could have seen this coming and could have built the reservoirs decades ago. Now, the reservoir they are building in Havant thicket (I'm in Southern Water) is being repurposed as a source of water for water recycling (after initially having wide support simply as a reservoir.)

Now, one defence of water recycling is that it is "successful" in other countries. But when I stayed in a backpackers hostel in Les Vegas, I poured a pint of tap water and the students in there just looked at the glass as if it contained uranium, and said to me "you're not going to drink that are you?"

Here in Southern Water, we won't have drinking water in the tap for much longer. Perhaps you can bare showering in it, but just you explain to your 3 year old where the water in the tap comes from? Now tell me this isn't to do with population growth?

jimjames

ballisticbrian said:

QrizB said:

ballisticbrian said:

I'm not attempting to make this political, it is purely maths! Anyone?

Not all water is equal.

Imagine you're a water company.

You can get your water from source A or source B. Source A can supply 1000 cubic metres a day for £1 a cubic metre, source B can supply 5000 cubic metres a day.

You have enough customers that they collectively need 600 cubic metres a day. You're going to draw it from source A, average cost £1 a cubic metre.

Now you get more customers and need an extra 600 cubic metres a day. Total 1200 cubic metres. You can get 1000 of those from source A, but the last 200 have to come from source B. The total cost is now £1400. You need to charge (14/12) £1.17 a cubic metre, a 17% increase.

Thank you, very logical. I will say however that the water companies could have seen this coming and could have built the reservoirs decades ago. 

It's very easy to say that but it's not actually true. Water companies are not allowed to build reservoirs unless it is agreed by the regulator and environment agency that they can spend that money. One reason why bills are higher going forward is to catch up on this type of spending.  Any normal business would have developed capacity to sell as much of their product as they possibly can to maximise profits. Water companies cannot do that. They are told that they have to reduce customer usage before they are allowed to spend on any more sources like reservoirs and there is a maximum amount they can bill - if it goes above they have to adjust next year. If they are told that customers have to use on average 130 litres a day (for example) then that is the amount that they have to work with regardless of the fact that customers might actually use 160 litres a day.

Max68

"But what I don't understand is, if there is new demand, then you have new paying customers."

Used this as an example re Council Tax as well.  No new services, thousands of new residents (payers) but Tax still goes up!