Are parking permit machines. / screens which don’t issue a receipt legal

Ralph-y

 I currently have an ongoing email/phone debate with West Lancs Planning Dept.

IFAIK the church asked for planning advice ( not permission)  late spring /early summer ... that has still not been given.

For non locals ... this is a conservation area and a grade one listed building.

They built a small car park in the corner of the grounds ... very prominent ... I have no problem with that ... it was needed for disabled visitors / funeral events ... But then invited in the scammers CEL

this was the  reason that I became involved. I asked West Lancs  if any planning / advertising consent had been granted.

Answer was no.

They have since installed a second set of cameras in main car park at the back of the church .... again with out planning / advertising consent. And this one is a pay to park by app .... in an area with poor mobile reception ... ( sound familiar?)  I need to check  it all out,   is it part of the ' 5 min'' scam ? we will see

The last contact that I had with the planning dept. I agreed to wait till the second week in Feb to give them more time .... so I will be back in touch with them soon.

KeithLancashure can you please confirm that it was CEL you appealed to and it was they who cancelled? its very  unusual for the scammers to cancel ....

Your defence obviously worked but perhaps it would not quite be, what we would have suggested.

We have to get the word out about this scam.

And remind people to not divulge who was / is driving

"Is there any case law on the subject "

 

no not yet ..... unregulated industry

KeithLancashure

Thank you LDast

I agree 

It isn’t my Church but I have brought to the attentionof a Church warden  that the Company which they have appointed to eradicate a minor problem are parasites and that they will drive away loyal customers 

My friend lost his appeal for 9 December for whatever reason even though he had the receipt for the 2 coffees that day and I had no receipt - 

probably because I threw the book at them in my Appeal and he didn’t 

He has paid the reduced amount of £60 within the 14 days 

KeithLancashure

Thank you Nellymoser for the most useful information

I will take it up with my MP 

The Church is just over a constituency border in a different Constituency to the one in which I live 

I have signed the petition 

KeithLancashure

Thank you Ralph 

Yes it was CEL  of Liverpool

Being naive in these matters I did admit to being the driver - there was only me in the car

Even though I knew nothing about Parking Notices on private land I did a bit of googling saw what parasites I was dealing with exposed the flaws in their system at the Upholland Church threw the book at them in my appeal got an enquiry back asking me to prove that I used the church facilities on 3 and 9 December - sent copy bank statement for 3 December to show that I paid £6 for 2,coffees and also £10.99 for Christmas cards and said I have no receipt for 9 December as my friend paid for the coffees  on that day but in case you decide to take me to court have typed and signed a short statement of truth to produce to the court to swear that I did use the facilities of the Church on 9 December 

It’s been a lot of stress a lot of hassle and a lot of time consumed but I was incensed at these parasitical scammers and determined that they were getting nothing from me 

They backed off and sent letters of cancellation for 3 and 9 December 

Below is abridged version of cancellation of 9 December which was dated 20 January 

I received a similar cancellation for alleged offence on 3 December 

PCN Reference 002322010181

Date of Incident 09 December 2024

Site Details ST THOMAS 

CONFIRMATION OF CANCELLATION

We refer to recent communications with this office in respect of the Parking Charge Notice. We now confirm that this Notice is cancelled 

Ralph 

With regard to the second car park to which you refer I have never been on that one as it is a long way from the church 

KeithLancashure

Hi Ralph 

 My granddaughter who lives in Upholland knew that I met up for a coffee and a chat at the Upholland Church warned me that on the local Community Hub people were up in arms about being scammed £100 for parking at the Church car park 

I said not to worry as I enter my reg and get a permit every time 

A couple of weeks later I got the 2 Notices despite registering and obtaining an on screen permit which I could not prove  

With regard to my defence I had no precedent or template - just told it as it was at length politely but firmly 

Ralph-y

Thanks for that .... so ...... before you wander off , please make a note of where the newbies thread is to be found .... and maybe have a quick read through .....

so that if, or (more likely)  when, you ... your family ... neighbours ... acquaintances fall into another private parking scam you will have all the information ready.

taken from hansard (  parliament records)

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

·    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact the department that Couponmad referenced to bring this act into being.

I will let you know what happens re the planning dept. replies as soon as ....

Coupon-mad

Good to see you posting, @Ralph-y

Well done @KeithLancashure

Glad you were robust and won your battles. I'll try to influence and win the war v rogue practice & will include this point.

KeithLancashure

Thank you Ralph and Coupon  - mad 

for all your help

Best Wishes - Keith 

Ralph-y

While I await planning dep to reply .... it has started to 'kick off a bit ' at the church just as any one would have expected.

Can any one please confirm ( I have tried a few searches) that CEL where clampers ?

thanks

Car1980

No, a lack of receipt is not illegal / unlawful.

The onus is on THEM to prove you were unauthorised or had not obtained permission if they went to court.

But if they had a system where their tablets were fake and didn't give them a record of reg numbers and they issued PCNs, it would be a fraud matter.