Are parking permit machines. / screens which don’t issue a receipt legal

KeithLancashure

I parked on a small Church Car Park as a customer for their coffee/snack shop 

The Church started to employ the services of the  park firm in very late November  2024

The terms and conditions are that you must obtain a permit to use the car park by putting your car registration into a Machine / tablet inside the Church 

The grant of the permit flashes up on the screen for a few seconds and then disappears.

No receipt or confirmation is provided.

On the 2 days in question 3 and 9 December 2024 I parked on the car park walked some hundred yards or so to enter the Church and entered my car registration  n umber on a machine / IPad within the Church and the permit appeared on the screen 

However a few weeks later I received  from Civil

Enforcement Limited Car Park Charging Notices of £ 100 each to say that I had not registered with a permit on those 2 days which is untrue 

On those 2 days  I had arranged to meet a friend for a coffee at the church ( as the church run a coffee/ snack shop / community hub and a post office at the back of the church to help church funds ) 

The newly installed machine / tablet must have been faulty or had a glitch 

My appeals to both were  successful 

I made many points in my appeal about lack of signage / inadequate signage etc etc as there were many flaws in the system 

One of the most important  points which I made was that the machine/tablet did not offer me a receipt or confirmation which deprived me of the evidence that I had obtained my permit on the days in question 

I have seen similar machines in pubs with regard to their  car parks and again no receipt is provided.

My question is :- 

Is it legal for these avaricious carpark firms to operate machines which do not  provide a receipt / confirmation 

If they had not cancelled the notices I would not have paid the charge and would have left them to sue me in the County Court 

I have been denied my day in court as they have cancelled the Notices 

My defence in the county court would have been that I would have sworn on oath that I had obtained a permit on screen from the machine / tablet and that the Car Parking  Charge Notices were unlawful unfair and inequitable because the machine / iPad deprived me of evidence as it did not provide a receipt or confirmation of the permit 

Has anyone tried that defence ? 

Is there any case law on the subject 

elsien

The confirmation generally stays on the screen long enough to take a photo of it, which is what I now do just in case.
however if you can prove you were at the church, will they not cancel it for you? When I’ve had this happen in a pub and I’ve shown a receipt or a credit card statement to prove that I did spend money there at the time, they have always cancelled it.

KeithLancashure

Hi Elsien 

I got both cancelled by 2 long appeals blasting their flaws 

I could prove my presence on 3 December as I paid for the coffees and bought some Christmas cards 

On 9 December my friend paid for coffee so I had no receipt 

Yes I take a photo now 

It bothers me that these machines do not issue a written confirmation and leave people with no evidence of having obtained a permit and having the hassle of trying to make a successful appeal 

Surely that cannot be legal fair and equitable 

I would like to see a campaign to ban no receipt machines 

Coupon-mad

I'll take that up with the MHCLG - I agree.

KeithLancashure

Thank you 
i had not heard of that Department 

Coupon-mad

They are the team creating the new statutory regime to curb private parking firms' rogue practice.

I'm on the Steering Group so I can include this in my recommendations. Good timing!

KeithLancashure

wow that is amazing timing 
I had never come across Private Parking Notices before and was incensed that it finished up me against a machine and the odds were against me 
as I had no evidence
I am so glad that I put the problem to MSE Forum
Great that you are on the Steering Committee and good luck in all that you do to curb rogue practice Best Wishes - Keith 

 

Ralph-y

Where is this car park ?  Upholland ?

KeithLancashure

Yes Ralph Upholland West Lancashire Best Wishes - Keith 

LDast

You may want to ask the Church management why they have agreed to infest their car park with an unregulated private parking company who will in due course scare off a large chunk of their customer base as they keep receiving £100 invoices through no fault of their own.

Once they realise that their turnover and profits from their little enterprise start dropping off as customers start to avoid the inconvenience of having to deal with these £100 invoices, they will rue the day they were conned into introducing the car park operator.

Nellymoser

Statutory regulation is needed to stop this industry's out of control behaviour. A group of MPs raised it in a letter to HCLG Minister and one MP recently told Parliament "Rip-off parking 'fines' need to go".

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81193608/#Comment_81193608

It would help if you get your own MP to ask MHCLG when Govt Parking Code of Practice will be implemented and join the motorists call demanding the re-launch of a Govt-backed CoP. Please sign and share 🙏

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701453

We must keep pressure on new Govt, previous one failed to ensure motorists were protected and treated fairly from an industry who for years have shown they either lack the capabilities to achieve this or have no desire to.