Self Service Till Checkout Cameras- Is the Close Surveillance they force on us even Legal ?

Tucosalamanca

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Supermarkets generally operate with a 3-5% margin, so regardless of scale there is little scope to carry dead weight or reduce prices. We have the cheapest food in the EU, for comparable quality cheapest in most of the advanced economy, a similar weekly shop in France, Germany, Norway, Australia or Canada is considerably more expensive, anywhere from 50-100% more expensive. In the US whilst one can buy lower quality food for less than in the UK, comparable quality food to what is available in the UK would cost 3-5 times what it costs here depending on where in the US one is. 

And it is that margin that prevents you from opening a grocery store and taking custom away from the big companies, or more accurately that is why the number of greengrocers, butchers, fishmongers and off licences have declined. 

The number of specialist off-licences plummeted when licensing laws were changed (Licensing Act 2003).
They lost their USP overnight.

This lead to the rapid expansion of independent convenience and 'express' stores from the supermarkets, who were now able to sell alcohol, which made previously unviable sites an attractive proposition (and also saw the birth of 'on-the-go' products which have since revolutionised retail).

Many factors have lead to the decline in the high street, it's mostly due to changes in customers' needs and very little to do with supermarket pricing.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grumpy_chap said:

AIUI, Sainsbury's are reducing staff because they are closing their Sainsbury's Cafe outlets, pizza counters and patisserie counters.  These are all high-service parts of the Sainsbury's retail offering.  Reading between the lines, it is a statement by Sainsbury's to focus on their core product (selling low-cost stuff at high volume, low margin) and not carrying the burden of high-staff for the high-service elements of the current business.

These areas used to draw customers in, there was a report on the BBC saying the average person visits a grocer 16 times a month which seems crazy to me, the supermarkets used to be a big place to do a big shop but it must be more profitable for people to go more often as I'd imagine a lot of people buy more than they intended, big shop is expensive so you are more likely to stick to the list, small shop not so much so easier to spend on things you didn't go there to buy.

Expansion of self checkout is an example of this, chicken and egg question, but when self service doesn't accommodate a large shop is that because people decided to do small shops so the supermarkets adjusted or it supermarkets twisting your arm to do small shops because they are more profitable? 

Look at McDonalds, people buy more at the screens, partly because they can take their time but equally the screen doesn't judge you for ordering 5 burgers, in the same vein the self service doesn't judge you for buying 5 packets of crips. 

It's effectively a reduction in choice, when visiting supermarket is Austria they may have been expensive but there appeared to be a lot more choice, I know too much choice confuses consumers and leaves them buying less but in the main in UK supermarkets it really does feel as if choice is lacking. 

MattMattMattUK said:

I would say that those issues make the data in those articles entirely irrelevant, as it is not even comparing like for like. 

Always welcome to supply sources to the contrary 

Tucosalamanca said:

The number of specialist off-licences plummeted when licensing laws were changed (Licensing Act 2003).
They lost their USP overnight.

This lead to the rapid expansion of independent convenience and 'express' stores from the supermarkets, who were now able to sell alcohol, which made previously unviable sites an attractive proposition (and also saw the birth of 'on-the-go' products which have since revolutionised retail).

Many factors have lead to the decline in the high street, it's mostly due to changes in customers' needs and very little to do with supermarket pricing.

Yes indeed changing habits but most of those are changing habits in bad habits, as a nation we aren't stuffing our face with carrots and apples, all that junk food is good profit.

There's a Greggs near us, you see all the school kids go in there before and after school filling up on poor quality rubbish, very sad. 

In comparison the place my wife works at makes a lovely sausage roll from (almost) scratch, more expensive but far more enjoyable to eat. 

Grumpy_chap

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

These areas used to draw customers in,  

I agree and they probably still do.

A cafe / coffee shop probably draws in the same volume of traffic whether Sainsbury's branded or franchise for a High Street coffee chain.  

The fresh pastries / bakery is nice and the smell is blown to the front of the store to make it appealing.  I suspect the patisserie part suffers a disproportionate volume of waste plus theft if the number of kids eating a pain-au-chocolate while their parents walk (drag) them round the store is anything to go by.  In fact, our local Tesco has a "free fruit for your kids" offering at the store entrance with a note that the fruit can be taken to eat while walking the store and healthier than cake.

The fresh pizza counters might be a bit of a has-been feature, I don't know.  I do recall when the Sainsbury's supermarket opens near us and had the fresh pizza area it was amazing and an absolute wonder - no one had ever seen anything like it.  At first, you could have any pizza made to order with any toppings mix at all.  Then that reduced to only a set combination of toppings, but still made to order.  Later on, that became pre-made in the store and pre-sealed but a "pick it up yourself" offering, no actual staff manning and making pizza through the whole day.  Then at some point that pizza counter just vanished and the options are reduced to just the boxed pizzas from the chilled section.  I wonder how many of the pizza made-to-order counters remain?  

sheramber

The empty cafe space in my local Sainsbury's has been empty for three years.

It is used as a dumping space for numerous racks, boxes etc.

sheramber

Zentex said:

I was forced into an Aldi self checkout as they would not open a till for any of us (despite telling us when first introduced , all we had to was ask for a manned checkout till to be opened if we wanted one to use) , their was a big queue behind me waiting. 
I had a lot of shopping, it took me ages, I had to twice get help, the £20 note would not go in for 10 attempts and to top it off I was watched by Big Brother at the till the whole time without my explicit consent. I have known they have ceiling cameras and am fine with this but this was the first time I saw myself on a big screen above the checkout till, which I found very intrusive indeed.
Do Supermarkets have to warn people they are being surveilled in writing anywhere in the Store? Does this infringe our civil rights to anonymity? By law would they have to open a till if you do not give consent to be closely surveilled at a self service till ? Does anybody know the law around all of this please?
I resented the whole experience and was not expecting to be told it was self service or nothing ! 
When I voiced my dissatisfaction again after scanning over them not opening a till for the big line of customers behind me  I was warned by a very  stressed shop assistant I would be banned by from the store if I continued
I have never been treated so badly in any supermarket in the country.
Is there any way the People can challenge the shops over being forced to scan dozens of items at 5X the time it takes them to do it all? I am a busy person I do NOT have time to scan my own shopping and forcing others to wait a very long time to get to the till. I would love a consumer backlash which is effective to get them to change back to at least 70% manned tills open, any chance of this happening?

I  ask the assistant to put my shopping thorough. 

If they refused I would walk out, leaving my shopping behind.

As for quickness, my DIL only uses self service because she is busy and it is quicker than waiting in a queue at a till.

Grumpy_chap

sheramber said:

The empty cafe space in my local Sainsbury's has been empty for three years.

It is used as a dumping space for numerous racks, boxes etc.

That must be unusual.
Usually, a retailer will put any space to some form of revenue generating purpose.
This is for two reasons:
 - A visible dumping space is detracting from the image that the store will wish to portray
 - Even just extra floor space for special bulk-buy offers, or advertising specials is better than nothing.

Was the cafe operated by Sainsbury's or under an external brand.  There is the possibility that the cafe space was leased to "Brand X" for a period and "Brand X" decided to cease trading that location for whatever reason but still obligated to pay the floor space rent until some agreement expires.  Hence, the space sits unused as Sainsbury's are receiving an income from the space and cannot use it to sell bulk buy toilet roll or whatever.

sheramber

Grumpy_chap said:

sheramber said:

The empty cafe space in my local Sainsbury's has been empty for three years.

It is used as a dumping space for numerous racks, boxes etc.

That must be unusual.
Usually, a retailer will put any space to some form of revenue generating purpose.
This is for two reasons:
 - A visible dumping space is detracting from the image that the store will wish to portray
 - Even just extra floor space for special bulk-buy offers, or advertising specials is better than nothing.

Was the cafe operated by Sainsbury's or under an external brand.  There is the possibility that the cafe space was leased to "Brand X" for a period and "Brand X" decided to cease trading that location for whatever reason but still obligated to pay the floor space rent until some agreement expires.  Hence, the space sits unused as Sainsbury's are receiving an income from the space and cannot use it to sell bulk buy toilet roll or whatever.

it was a Sainsbury operation.

At the time they said they were looking into other ways of supplying the service.

born_again

Grumpy_chap said:

AIUI, Sainsbury's are reducing staff because they are closing their Sainsbury's Cafe outlets, pizza counters and patisserie counters.  These are all high-service parts of the Sainsbury's retail offering.  Reading between the lines, it is a statement by Sainsbury's to focus on their core product (selling low-cost stuff at high volume, low margin) and not carrying the burden of high-staff for the high-service elements of the current business.

Those empty Sainsbury's Cafe outlets will not simply sit empty but will likely be re-purposed to franchised food outlets such as Costa Coffee, Starbucks, Harris + Hoole or whoever bids for the estate.  This non-Sainsbury branded outlet can probably leverage higher prices as a "premium" catering offering than Sainsbury's Cafe which is likely constrained by the "value" positioning of the Sainsbury's brand and difficulty moving away from the traditional "builder's breakfast" that has been offered.  (I happen to like the Sainsbury's breakfast, but that is another thing all together - plus, since COVID, I travel to sites far less and therefore eat far fewer Sainsbury's breakfasts.  My trade probably makes no impact, but the collective change does.)

Which given sainsburys expansion into EV charging. As seems a odd move. Maybe they will just leave a few tables to allow people to buy the meal deals & a coffee (costa self serve) & have a space to sit.

Sains we use went from a sains cafe to starbucks & back to a sains cafe. Given that there is now a starbucks 1/2 a mile away. They will not be back. Thank god. Not that it is ever busy.

Grumpy_chap

sheramber said:

it was a Sainsbury operation.

At the time they said they were looking into other ways of supplying the service.

Maybe the alternative way of offering a cafe is via franchise who runs the cafe and really only pays rent to Sainsbury's.
I doubt that is attractive to a small independent because they probably cannot meet all the terms and conditions that Sainsbury's require.
Maybe that type of offering is only attractive to the big chains if it is a suite of sites, not just one at a time.  It is probably worth Starbucks putting the effort in to have 30 (or however many) new instore cafe sites but not just a small number.

born_again said:

Which given sainsburys expansion into EV charging.

Are the EV services being operated on a franchise basis?
They are also unmanned and have no service / staffing requirement.
Plus, EV charging is the current "thing" to show you are a good environmentally aware company so high on the corporate social responsibility matrix.

Ectophile

born_again said:

Grumpy_chap said:

AIUI, Sainsbury's are reducing staff because they are closing their Sainsbury's Cafe outlets, pizza counters and patisserie counters.  These are all high-service parts of the Sainsbury's retail offering.  Reading between the lines, it is a statement by Sainsbury's to focus on their core product (selling low-cost stuff at high volume, low margin) and not carrying the burden of high-staff for the high-service elements of the current business.

Those empty Sainsbury's Cafe outlets will not simply sit empty but will likely be re-purposed to franchised food outlets such as Costa Coffee, Starbucks, Harris + Hoole or whoever bids for the estate.  This non-Sainsbury branded outlet can probably leverage higher prices as a "premium" catering offering than Sainsbury's Cafe which is likely constrained by the "value" positioning of the Sainsbury's brand and difficulty moving away from the traditional "builder's breakfast" that has been offered.  (I happen to like the Sainsbury's breakfast, but that is another thing all together - plus, since COVID, I travel to sites far less and therefore eat far fewer Sainsbury's breakfasts.  My trade probably makes no impact, but the collective change does.)

Which given sainsburys expansion into EV charging. As seems a odd move. Maybe they will just leave a few tables to allow people to buy the meal deals & a coffee (costa self serve) & have a space to sit.

Sains we use went from a sains cafe to starbucks & back to a sains cafe. Given that there is now a starbucks 1/2 a mile away. They will not be back. Thank god. Not that it is ever busy.

I believe Sainsbury's are installing ultra rapid chargers.  In which case, you'd only need to spend half an hour shopping and your car will be more or less charged.